Sump Flow Adjustment

[InfernoST]

Hi Guys
Is it me or is it a royal PIA to adjust the levels in the sump? I made a few modifications, 1st was I reduced the supply (I believe there was way to much pressure and water flow) to the sump and cut down the feed pipes into the sump so they were 2 inches below the water level instead of all the way to the bottom, capped with a bunch of holes drilled into it (Now I understand what BigMike was talking about, back pressure now). It's a cool learning experience. I still have a few things to add but for the most part it's online and seems to be doing what it was designed to do. Here are a few pics.

Sump pic 1

Sump pic 2

Intake before Mod

Intake after Mod

 

[exodon king]

depending on how your "straight siphon" is set up, you will likely not be able to even the system out. you need an overflow, rather than a siphon.
even if you can match the siphon to the return of the pump, there will be other things to take into account. (cavitation, reduced flow of the intake due to algae build up, reduced flow of the pump by some kind of blockage or debris, etc.)

 

[ccCapt]

That is probably the scariest setup I ever saw....if I'm looking at it right.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have any type of overflow? You just started a siphon from the tank going down into the sump?

 

[InfernoST]

That is probably the scariest setup I ever saw....if I'm looking at it right.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have any type of overflow? You just started a siphon from the tank going down into the sump?

Yes it is a straight siphon for now and has been working fine, why do you say it's the scariest thing you've ever seen ? It's keeping it's level fine but was a pain to adjust and my calculations worked out, the sump doesn't overflow upon a power loss. I'm playing with a PVC overflow as we speak, but the first couple of configurations yielded lousy flow rates.

 

[ezy33]

How about after power off, will your siphon restart? Or will your sump run dry before the tank overflows?

 

[InfernoST]

depending on how your "straight siphon" is set up, you will likely not be able to even the system out. you need an overflow, rather than a siphon.
even if you can match the siphon to the return of the pump, there will be other things to take into account. (cavitation, reduced flow of the intake due to algae build up, reduced flow of the pump by some kind of blockage or debris, etc.)

The system is evened out and running perfectly fine but the flow had to be reduced hence my modification on the intake, the flow from the one inch pipe without the mod is incredible and makes impossible to adjust but now it's more manageable. The other reasons you list can happen even with an overflow and shouldn't be an issue if proper maintenance is done. As far as blockage I'm going to install two filter socks in the sump which should keep it down to the bare minimum.

 

[InfernoST]

How about after power off, will your siphon restart? Or will your sump run dry before the tank overflows?

I designed the sump to accommodate all the water above the holes on the intake, and vise versa, the sump can't overflow the tank either, this was also taken into consideration in the design. The siphon will not restart after a power loss neither will the pump, I built a simple latch circuit to keep the power off after a power outage which has to be manually reset (I really don't want it to turn back on until someone is present to make sure everything else is OK first). I'm also going to install 2 float switches, one for ATO and the other to shut off the pump and keep it off should the level get to low. Anyhow it's still a work in progress.

 

[ccCapt]

I'm all for DIY, but I have never seen a DIY overflow that works safely like a HOB overflow. Do you have a switch or something setup in case the siphon stops and the pump runs dry?
I highly recommend you spring for the $60 or whatever a HOB overflow costs. It's worth the peace of mind..IMO.

 

[exodon king]

The system is evened out and running perfectly fine but the flow had to be reduced hence my modification on the intake, the flow from the one inch pipe without the mod is incredible and makes impossible to adjust but now it's more manageable. The other reasons you list can happen even with an overflow and shouldn't be an issue if proper maintenance is done. As far as blockage I'm going to install two filter socks in the sump which should keep it down to the bare minimum.

not exactly.
with an overflow system, you only flow as much water as you push into the system. regardless if you use a 6" pipe, you will still only push out 600gph (or whatever the pump is pushing) so even with some algae build up in the pipe, you will not get reduced flow. also with the check valve system used on an overflow system, you dont have to worry about cavitation.

next is the issue of start/stop or power outages. while you have somewhat "addressed" this issue using a latch circuit (and your concept of float valves, wich is yet to be seen or tested). you now have a tank that completely dies on power out until you turn it back on. depending on the time lapse, youre looking at dead bacteria or worse, dead fish. while a simple overflow system would allow stop/restart with no such issues. if youre at work/school/on a trip/ etc, you may be looking at hours before being able to return to your tank.

while i admire your want to learn and try new things, and applaud your effort, there is an old saying for situations like this: "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

 

[InfernoST]

not exactly.
with an overflow system, you only flow as much water as you push into the system. regardless if you use a 6" pipe, you will still only push out 600gph (or whatever the pump is pushing) so even with some algae build up in the pipe, you will not get reduced flow. also with the check valve system used on an overflow system, you dont have to worry about cavitation.

next is the issue of start/stop or power outages. while you have somewhat "addressed" this issue using a latch circuit (and your concept of float valves, wich is yet to be seen or tested). you now have a tank that completely dies on power out until you turn it back on. depending on the time lapse, youre looking at dead bacteria or worse, dead fish. while a simple overflow system would allow stop/restart with no such issues. if youre at work/school/on a trip/ etc, you may be looking at hours before being able to return to your tank.

while i admire your want to learn and try new things, and applaud your effort, there is an old saying for situations like this: "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

Point taken, I was thinking about what you and Larry are saying and am looking into an overflow box, it doesn't pay to try and make something with PVC that would restart the siphon automatically without it looking unsightly in the DT.
The locked out circuit does work and was tested, and the fish wouldn't die because this is my main filter.

I'm going to order one after work today, probably the 1000 or 1200 gph eshopps overflow and join the two outputs with a wye connector valve then to the manifold.