Swim Bladder disease for fantail

[Phrozian]

Hello all! Long time no see~~
I'm currently looking after a sick goldfish for my boss. He's a fantail goldie about 2 inches long. At the moment, he is in a hospital tank with a filter filled with bio medium transferred with him as well, so the tank is cycled.

He's been hanging upside down for 4-5 days before my boss brought him to work. So far, he has lost all appetite and is showing signs of slightly labored breathing... He is also visibly swollen on his abdomen on one side, just behind the gills.

I've tried boiling and mashing up peas for him to eat, but he's not very interested at all. He is still able to swim, and when he does, he is able to swim upright and appears normal. However, once he stops to rest, which is quite often, his tail begins to lift and he tips upside down.

At this point, would medication be a good idea?

Thanks in advance~
Alex.

 

[dkpate]

You could try salt, it might help. 1 tsp per gallon. Remember that salt doesn't evaporate, so you will have to manually remove it. If you do a pwc of 50%, you will need to re-add that salt you removed, so if you had 5 tsp's of salt, you would need to put in 2 1/2 more tsp's. Hope that makes sense.
Do not feed him any food either, and see if that makes the swelling go down. He might be backed up.

 

[Phrozian]

I think he's backed up as well, considering he's lost his appetite completely. I tried peas, but he wasn't interested and I suspect that he's already lost his appetite for a few days. That means he's been starved already.

I was considering epsom salt baths... What do you think?

 

[dkpate]

Since he's already in the hosp. tank, I would go with the salt in the tank. Moving the fish is pretty stressful, and he is probably already stressed out.
His scales aren't sticking out right? Like a pinecone?

 

[Phrozian]

Luckily no, his scales are normal. So he hasn't reached the dropsy stage yet *fingers crossed*.
I thought epsom salts should be used sparingly in concentrate baths? If you don't mind me asking... What would normal salt do in a normal tank?

 

[dkpate]

There is some normal salt that you can use, but I am not sure which one. The one that is not idoized or something. There is some anti-clumping chemical in the kitchen salt that is not good for fish, but I forgot what it's called.
I think you can do the epsom baths, but I would use aquarium salt for the hospital tank. That's just me though. I am leery of putting anything not made for an aquarium in my tanks.
I am glad to hear he doesn't have dropsy!!! I lost a fish to it a couple months ago, and now I am dealing with it again. No fun.

 

[glassbird]

Jsoong will probably pop in here to give you good advice, so I will limit myself to a quick comment on salt. Use non-iodized salt, with no "yellow prussiate soda" (something along that line). When I need salt, I use pickling salt. Cheap, and fine, so it dissolves quickly. Pre-dissolve the desired amount by removing several cups of aquarium water and adding the salt to it...then pour the water/salt mix back into the tank slowly, in an area with lots of water movement...maybe near the filter outflow, for example. If one of your fish wanders over for a look-see, stop and wait until he has left the area before continuing.

Diet is a very important part of flip-over/swim bladder issues. This is an area you might want to research further.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi guys, checked on the little buddy today and it seems that he ate small bits of peas and has pooped quite a bit. However, he remains upside down. The poop also looks weird. It consisted of a transparent gel-like outer rim and a white interior. Any thoughts?

I kept up with the peas today and will keep you guys posted tomorrow

 

[dkpate]

Well, if it was white poo, it could be internal parasites or stress. Those are just 2 examples, there could be more but I am not sure.
Glad he ate some peas and pooped!!!

 

[Jason7894561230]

Thats great news. I hope he will be okay. fingerscrossed for you!

 

[Phrozian]

I had a feeling that it could be internal parasites. So I kept the white poop in a cultured jar to see if anything would come out of that. I've also kept some Kanaplex just in case... I'll see whether he would improve further tomorrow. I'll judge from there to see if he has internal parasites. Once I can get a close enough confirmation... I'll start medicating

 

[Phrozian]

It has been 3 days of continuous pooping for my little buddy. He's still upside down and still producing long white stringy poop.
While he's no longer constipated, his appetite still haven't returned. The discernible lump behind his left gill is still quite large. I'm seriously suspecting it's internal parasites.

Would any of you have advice on how I should go about treating him?

 

[jsoong]

The problem with the fish is either a swim bladder problem or severe constipation.

I would treat for constipation first, as this is the easier one to handle (& the treatment will do no harm).
You have already tried peas. I would feed nothing but peas for a week or so to clean out the gut.
You can increase the temp to mid 70's. That increases gut function & often helps.
Epsom salt is the laxative to use if peas alone don't help. I would use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. Some use much higher concentration for short term bath, but that is hard on the fish. I would give the Epsom salt a week or so to do its thing, although it usually work within a day or 2.
High concentration of regular salt (NaCl, aquarium salt, pickling salt, kosher salt...) is a purgative. You need to do a salt dip of at least 0.5%. <I have use up to 1.0% in fish that had been exposed to salt previously.> You do have to watch the fish closely & be prepared to remove the fish to fresh water at any sign of trouble. I would do no more than 5 or 10 minutes max even if the fish is handling the salt. I would use the salt dip as a last resort as it is stressful to the fish, and weak fish may not survive high salt treatment. <Adding just small amounts of salt to the tank - say under 0.3% - is not going to help with constipation at all.>

If it is true swim bladder dysfunction, this can be due to:
1. Genetics - nothing you can do .... fish however can live for a long time upside down. <Some have do surgery & other heroics in big fish ....>
2. Permanent damage from diseases - again not much you can do.
3. Acute bacterial or parasite infection - you might try antibiotic food or an anti-parasitic food - in view of the poop & the lump, I might try something with Praziquental first.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi Jsoong, thanks for your detailed reply!
Unfortunately I am not able to obtain Praziquentel without a prescription as it is a controlled drug here in Australia. To order it from US, it will take at least a week to arrive.
I have medications such as Maracyn, Kanaplex and anti-bacterial medicated food (Jungle). Would any of those work? If not, I will go ahead and order the new medication from US and hope my little buddy will survive...

 

[jsoong]

Of all the drugs you have, I would choose Kanaplex in case it is a bacterial infection. That would be the most effective one. Ideally, you want to feed the fish the kanamycin. This is a recipe of how to make kanamycin food:
An Easy Medicated Gel Food Recipe | Illness and Treatment

 

[Phrozian]

Thanks Jsoong!
My little buddy is still not eating as he still doesn't have any appetite. The pea method only worked because I mashed the peas so finely that he was basically breathing the peas in
Nevertheless, he was swimming right side up today for about 8 hours. Then when he was getting tired near the end of the day, he started to float upside down again. I've started the Kanamycin treatment following the specified directions. I suspect... The Kanamycin is going to kill my bacteria hey?

 

[Phrozian]

I was wondering... How long would it usually take for Kanamycin to work?
My little buddy is upside down again, but he's visibly more aware and active. I think something is helping, but just not sure what.
I've kept the peas diet going, and I gravel vacuum everyday to remove any uneaten peas before I put fresh ones in.

 

[jsoong]

If you use kanamycin in the water, there is a possibility that it will kill the bio-filter, so monitoring & pwc's as needed is in order.

I would give the treatment a week to 10 days ... keeping fingers crossed ...

 

[Phrozian]

Great, I've been testing the water daily and doing water pwc's whenever I see an increase in ammonia and nitrite levels. I'm also feeding my little buddy (his name is now Chubby/Chubster) peas, and added 1 tbsp per 5 gallon of epsom salt into the tank to help him poop.
He's continuously pooping white stringy poop. So I guess I won't know until several more days then?

 

[Phrozian]

Just a quick update:
Chubby has moved from pooping white stringy poop, to solid white poop. Today is his second day on full Kanamycin treatment and the lump on his left side 'seems' to have improved.
However, he is still upside down and has no appetite... Does this sound promising?