Taking the plunge - Discus!

[sudz]

I have a 44 gallon pentagon tank. 24 inch tall, 24 wide 24 length

Moderately planted.

I keep the temp aroudn 83 degrees. 2 small clown loaches (I think stunted b/c of a parisite problem in their infantcy) 4 Congo Tetra's, 1 siamese algae eater, 2 black phantom Tetra's, 4 Cardinal Tetra's PH is 6.8. Tank is around 10 degrees Hardness. 1 millenium rainbow and 2 dwarf rainbows.

My question... Do you think A rainbow would get along with these tankmates?

 

[bs6749]

I'm confused, you are asking about keeping a rainbow but your title says that you are "taking the plunge" and getting discus. Which one is it?

In my opinion that tank is not suited at all for discus. It is too small for anything except a mated pair and even then that tank has weird dimensions and I wouldn't put a pair in there. You are going to need at least a 55 gallon tank (75 gallon+ recommended) if you want to properly keep discus. They need to be in a school of at least 5 unless you keep a mated pair together (which is fine if they are in a tank by themselves). I could elaborate more but I'm not even sure that you are asking about discus so my efforts may be wasted anyway.

 

[sudz]

LOL! sorry, I should read before i hit the post button. the post is indeed about discus.

So you're saying no-go for a discus? Big Al's said I'd be able to house 3 of them. I thought that was Bogus and way wrong. What I really need to know is if a single discus can be happy. Both in that tank, and without other discus to socialize with.

 

[Innovator]

Discus can be rather shy even within groups of their own. I would not house a single, it's not natural for them nor do I think you should house them in a 44g.

 

[bs6749]

No, a single discus is not fine in any tank unless you are putting it in a QT tank. Discus are schooling fish and require a group of AT LEAST 5, with more being better. I've got 13 in my 100 gallon. I'll reduce this number once some grow up and I may have to cull 2-3 of them soon.

If you are really interested in discus you NEED to visit www.simplydiscus.com/forum Do your research and post your questions there. Experts from all across the world are on that forum and they can answer anything that you will need answered. They can give you helpful advice that will save hundreds of dollars in the long run if you decide to get a larger tank for discus. I'd recommend a 75 gallon tank which could stock 7-8 adults. Also check out the sponsors section for some really nice discus. You may think the prices are high but I can guarantee you that those will be the best discus you will be able to find for your money. Especially check out "Kenny's Discus", and "April's Discus". April is in Canada, which should save you the customs's fees if you get discus shipped to you. She also gets from the same distributors as Kenny and I think from Kenny too when she wants something he has available. I'd look at getting about 6-8 3" fish and growing them out if you are serious about keeping discus. Most will tell you that that's the way to go. Hope that helped.

 

[sudz]

It did help, but its not what I wanted to hear. Its going to take a while before i finally get my 75 gallon. I was hoping to get 3-5 juvi's and transfer them when they grow, to my future 75 gallon.

Looks like this is going on hold.

There's only so much room in my 1 bedroom apartment. I'm thinking i'll have to set up the 75 gallon, and tear down my 44 when everything is stable with the 75 gallon. It'll just take too much space to have them both.

Thanks for the advice. I'll be checking out that site!

 

[bs6749]

Trust me, it's MUCH better to have it be "not what you wanted to hear" and do it the right way than it is to spend money and end up with bad quality stock.

If I were you I'd get the 75 gallon tank. Keep it bare bottom and grow out 6-8 3" fish by themselves. Since you are going with a 75 I'd shoot for a MINIMUM of 6 discus. It's best to get fish that are all from the same spawn but I can understand getting different strains of fish. Just make sure they are all the same size so they grow well. Keep them in there by themselves and do regular water changes of about 15 gallons every 2 days until they are all about 4.5+". Then you can add a substrate, plants if you'd like, and other fish. You could even put potted plants in the bare bottom tank while you grow them out if you want some decorations in there.

 

[sudz]

Thanks bs6749. It will most likely be a project for the new year. I was actually considering buying mature discus. it would be ok to stick them in a planted, stocked tank right off the bat?

However... The idea of a bare bottom tank does reduce the amount of $$$ i have to put into starting this tank. and the cost of fish would be much less.

One thing though... If i am running both tanks at once, would it be best for me to transplant some of my current fish to the 75 bare bottom to help with cycling the tank... then put them back in the original tank when the discus come?

I'm thinking i'd use my Congo tetra's... as they're hardy... and pretty "dirty". I'd probably start the ball rolling with some filter media from my current tank, and taking water from it as well.

Anywho, Again, Thanks so much for steering me in the right direction.

And on that note... does this look like a decent deal?
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-accessories-75-Gallon-fish-tank-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ75385231

 

[bs6749]

First, that deal doesn't seem like a "great deal" unless it is cherry wood and not just a cherry colored stain. I can get the same thing here for $400 but the stand would pine staind dark to look black and woudn't have the canopy. If it WAS cherry, I'd jump on it. What I'd do is buy a new aquarium, two 200W heaters, and two sponge filters. This should save you $100 or so that you can use for the upgraded lighting in the future.

It would be okay to put adult discus into a planted tank but if you want it to be planted you are going to need about $200 worth of lights for a tank that size, so maybe the deal above isn't that appealing to you anymore. Also, I'd add 2 sponge filters to the tank that you have up and running at the moment. That way when the time comes for a new tank all you have to do is transplant both sponge filters and your tank is instantly cycled. Since you know this far in advance, it's definitely a good idea to buy 2 filters. Or, maybe you plan on running a canister filter or something else. The same principle applies though... get the filter running now so that it's seeded when you're ready to go.

It's always tempting to go out and buy a fish that is $100-150 but you could get 8 younger fish for about $300. If you lose one of those it's not as bad as losing an adult! Plus, it gives you more experience with them which will be beneficial. I strongly recommend purchasing 3"+ fish. Don't go any smaller though. Most strains out there won't cost you more than $60 for a 3" fish(more expensive ones), some like blue diamonds will run you $30 at that size, white diamonds about $40, altum floras $30, goldens, albinos,leopards, snakeskins, pennang eruptions, velvet rouge, etc. are going to be toward the $60 mark or more. I'd buy from April or another Canadian sponsor on that forum if I were you though.

 

[sudz]

You're the best. I'm talking toa guy who's had one out of use for 2 years now, looking for a quick buck. Its the fake Oak finish, and it has a canopy if i ever want to convert it to show tank. No stand, but i can make one. (made one for 29 dollars tax in for my 44 gallon) I can probably get the aquarium and canopy for under 100 bucks. Now the question is if it'll fit in my mazda3 sedan.

I have a spare 200 watt heater lying around, but I'll have to pick up another one. I also have a spare Aquaclear 70 laying around. And a bubbler laying around as well. If its not planted, I don't need ANY lighting???

So i can get the environment set up for...

Tank: 75
Stand: 40
+1 Heater: 40
+1 Filter : 60

if i'm doing that many water changes i'm going to have to start buying the declorinator in bulk I always put too much in. I think its a good "bad" habit to have.

Having the tank unplanted/decorated/unlit would make this MUCH easer on the pocketbook... and by the time they are fully grown... I can add lighting, substrate (fan of eco-complete) and eventually plants and other fish and convert it into a show tank.

It'll be at least a year long project. but if i can scatter the cost over the year it'll be less painful.

Hrmm... *ponders*

 

[bs6749]

You're the best. I'm talking toa guy who's had one out of use for 2 years now, looking for a quick buck. Its the fake Oak finish, and it has a canopy if i ever want to convert it to show tank. No stand, but i can make one. (made one for 29 dollars tax in for my 44 gallon) I can probably get the aquarium and canopy for under 100 bucks. Now the question is if it'll fit in my mazda3 sedan.

I doubt that the tank will fit in your car. I have an '04 Pontiac Grand Prix and my 55 gallon tank fit but if it was any wider it wouldn't have. The 75 you are looking at will be the same length but 18 inches wide vs. 13ish. Trunk wasn't an option in my case and I have a large trunk. See if he'll drop it off for a small fee ($15?). Also see if the tank has a center brace. Newer ones do. If it doesn't I wouldn't get it as you will have to fabricate your own or risk not being able to have tops which means your discus could jump out (it does happen) or your lights could fall into the water shocking the fish (ouchie LOL).

I have a spare 200 watt heater lying around, but I'll have to pick up another one. I also have a spare Aquaclear 70 laying around. And a bubbler laying around as well. If its not planted, I don't need ANY lighting???.

So i can get the environment set up for...

Tank: 75
Stand: 40
+1 Heater: 40
+1 Filter : 60.

I'd look at getting two new heaters if you are planning on spending $40 for one. You should be able to get two (200-250W)Marinland Visitherm Stealth heaters for under $40 total from BigAl's. Generally www.petmountain.com has cheaper stuff so get BigAl's to do their price match (you have to call and order but it's worth it). Have the part number on hand for BigAl's to compare. I'd also skip the additional filter for now. You will be doing lots of water changes and it's really unnecessary, one would suffice in addition to 2 sponge filters. It's basically all the excrement that pollutes the water so make sure it is clean and you will be good to go. And no, you don't "need" any lighting for the fish other than for viewing their colors, which is helpful when diagnosing a sick fish. I'd suggest a cheap strip light if you can find one but if it's over $25 I'd say forget it and save your money.

if i'm doing that many water changes i'm going to have to start buying the declorinator in bulk I always put too much in. I think its a good "bad" habit to have.

Having the tank unplanted/decorated/unlit would make this MUCH easer on the pocketbook... and by the time they are fully grown... I can add lighting, substrate (fan of eco-complete) and eventually plants and other fish and convert it into a show tank.

It'll be at least a year long project. but if i can scatter the cost over the year it'll be less painful.

Hrmm... *ponders*

Too much dechlorinator can be bad, I killed off a buttload of my red cherry shrimp one time by adding too much. I wouldn't go over twice the amount that is recommended. By Seachem's Prime if you use that much. It lasts a LONG time and it works great. Not expensive either. I think a 500mL bottle cost me like $15 or so, but like I said it lasts forever. Only treat the water that you add to the tank too, this will extend it even more.

 

[sudz]

Well, I just called the lady in the Kijiji link... Its 350 now, with no heaters, Not worth it. I'll look for a basic 75 gallon (with a cross support at the top) and work up from there. Really, its going to be about half the cost as I orginally thought. I mean... more than half the cost. I thought i was going to need 3-4 bags of eco complete, 200 bucks in lighting on the get go... it saves over 300 bucks not doing that.

and it was fake cherry wood

I just realized I have a powerhead lying around too! i can get the sponge attachment for it for under 20 bucks.

 

[bs6749]

I'd run a Tetra Whisper 20 airpump for 2 sponge filters. They say it's recommended for 20G tanks but I've used it to power a filter in two 29's and two 10's at the same time. It'll have no problem running 2 sponge filters in a 75 and they are like ~$7 at BigAl's. Run a small piece (6 inches with a check valve inline) of airline from the pump then add a "T" section. Put enough airline for each filter on each side of the "T" with an air valve inline. This will allow you to change the flow rate of the air which you may need to tinker with initially to get both sponge filters working correctly. I wouldn't run a powerhead since discus tend to not like that much of a flow in the tank. You could get an airpump, 2 sponge filters, airline, and the necessary valves for $20 or less.

I also think you could get away with just 3 bags of Eco-Complete in your 75. I have 2 bags in my 55 and I think it looks good. I don't like a lot of substrate but there's at least an inch everywhere. Also, depending on what you want for plants you might be able to get away with a Coralife 130W PC/CF light setup from BigAl's. This would give you about 2.34 "WPG" equivalent of lighting and would allow a good range of plants to grow and you would be just about at the sweet spot where you wouldn't have to worry about algae growth from the lights being on too long. You could always buy that light and then add an additional 48" T5 strip light for $50, which would save you $50 or more in the long run. Two 48" T5 setups would give you about 2.6 "WPG" equivalent and you shouldn't need any more than that unless you want HIGH light plants. I guess it all depends on what you want. You'd save over $100 on lighting if you wanted plants that require up to medium-high lighting and went with either the two T5's or single PC/CF setup. The PC/CF choice may be better in your case. You shouldn't have to worry about CO2 then.

 

[sudz]

I currently have a very aged 96 watt bulb in my 44 gallon... but the canopy wasn't designed for it and blocks alot of light. I'm pretty sure i'd be good around the 2-2.5wpg range. i Tried DIY Sugar+yeast CO2 when i had 36 watts for my 10 gallon and it was too much of a hassle. And i don't need the added expendature of pressurized CO2. I'll worry about the lighting later on. There are dozens of options for a popular tank size like this

 

[bs6749]

Pressurized CO2 should actually take a lot of hassle out of a planted tank. DIY CO2 setups with yeast need to be refilled often and cleaned out, etc. Pressurized CO2's biggest hassle would be refilling the tank but you should know well in advance when that day is coming by the pressure gauge. The initial cost is quite expensive too considering it'd be around $150-200.