Tank refuses to cycle; 2 months

[tweakz20]

Hey guys. Tl;dr my tank refuses to cycle.
Setup: 10 gallon tank
Fluval 20 aquaclear filter
Heater maintaining a temp of about 78
2 airstones
Marineland hidden LED light
Course rock substrate w/ bunch of decorations
Water is a 50/50 mix of RO water and dechlorinated tap water (with stress coat). Tap water is high in hardness, pH, and alkalinity, and the RO water puts it in perfect range. pH is about 7.8-8.

I tried doing a fishless cycle at first, using Tetra SafeStart and Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride drops. My ammonia would drop sporadically with no rise in nitrite and nitrate would rise. Figuring it's not working right I got API quick start and used that too. Still sporadic ammonia drop, no nitrite rise. After a month I figured, whatever, I want to get Glofish Danios and they're supposed to be hardy so should be able to survive a mini-cycle. I did a large water change and added 5 danios (petco wouldn't let me just get 1). I wound up getting 2 more because one of the danios was being a bully and I wanted to increase the school. 3 days later I added Dr. Tim's one and only after it came in the mail. Water clouded again. Ammonia stayed around 0 after that, but then nitrite started rising to 1. Never went over 1.

2 of my fish died. I had them replaced. Then I realized they were dying because of nitrite and stopped replacing them. I started doing aggressive daily water changes (20% or more once or twice a day), adding aquarium salt, and Seachem's Prime. I also added another filter for about 2 weeks. The fish were dying 1 a day. I even tried giving some a salt bath but it didn't help. Now I'm down to 1 small danio. My last death was 5 days ago. This last one is starting to show bad signs (hovering near the top of the water and getting pushed by water currents more).

I noticed adding prime that my ammonia would go up to 0.25. It's hard to tell what effect it has on the nitrite and nitrate levels because they don't even know why it gets reduced. I started using Seachem's Stability in another desperate attempt to get bacteria established.

I haven't used Prime or done a water change in several days but my ammonia is rising slowly and the nitrite will not hit 0. Nitrate is also around 0. This makes me think that the cycle just decided to stop completely. I took my second filter off and put it on a 2 gallon bucket to do a fishless cycle without water changes but it has not had any drop in ammonia since I put it on.

Right now I am feeding the last guy 1 flake a day and making sure he eats it all (if he doesn't, i kick it up from the substrate and he finishes it).

Not sure what else I can do at this point. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[IsabellaRows]

like you've had quite the experience there!
Sounds to me, it's going through a cycle.... starting itself up again.

 

[IsabellaRows]

Sorry, tech problems.

I would keep the one filter in there and let the bacteria grow on it. Keep your one fish in there to cycle the tank, and then add more to the school. Adding too many at one time is NOT good for cycling the tank, hence loss of fish and other problems. I'm sorry to hear the pet store didnt guide you properly.
My advice would be to wait it out and let the cycle happen naturally. The ammonia has to spike and then the bacteria that converts ammonia will turn it into nitrite, then another bacteria into nitrate. This can take anywhere from 2-8 weeks. Continue with daily water changes if testing is high and useing salt to help the fishes gills for ammonia/nitrite poisoning is good.

 

[tweakz20]

Thanks for the reply. It's been 8 weeks and it's not processing ammonia or nitrite, that's the issue.

Edit: Guess I should add what my levels are at. Ammonia's sitting at 0.25 and rising, Nitrite has been <0.25 since my last water change 3 days ago (when it was 0.5), and nitrate is between 0 and 5, hasn't moved since the WC either.

 

[librarygirl]

First, I would stop with all the chemicals. They are hit and miss at best and some fish don't react well to them.

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia, nitrite, etc? Just to see if any is coming from there. In a 10 gal with one danio, the levels shouldn't be rising that fast. Sometimes the chemicals can do funny things too, so again I would stop with those.

I would do two 50% water changes a few hours apart to get the chemicals out. Instead of Stress coat, try using Prime to dechlorinate. Test the tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What test kit are you using---strips or liquid? Swish the filter media in clean dechlorinated tap water too. Stop messing with the filters as well (don't remove/replace anything).

Unfortunately cycling the tank with one danio is going to be tough, but before you add more fish I would try to get the tank more stabilized and figure out where the spikes are coming from. Also, FYI, danios are active fish and should be in a 20 gal minimum.

 

[wildroseofky]

Have you checked your PH? During a cycle the PH can drop. Once it gets low the bacteria stop growing and dies if the PH gets to 6. This happened with my first tank. It would not stay cycled took me two months to figure out it was the PH. Once that was fixed the tank cycled. Are you using a liquid test kit? I would recommend checking out this article Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice
It was a life savor for my fish.

 

[tweakz20]

Librarygirl,
The different chemicals were an attempt to save the fish, since PETCO doesn't take them back. I'm trying to keep to the bare minimum now (Prime and weekly WC instead of daily). I added prime yesterday cause the ammonia was elevated and my fish was showing signs of stress. He's looking better today. I have not been messing with the filter media, I added a second filter one day because I kicked up a bunch of crap with a WC and was trying to get it filtered out instead of settling back down.

I have both the API liquid kit and tetra strips. The strips say my tank has 0 nitrite and say the pH is lower (7.4 range instead of 8). And I just tested my tap water and it has the same coloration as the tank water on the API kit.. and upon further exam, testing my RO water as a control, it also has the same exact color for ammonia and nitrite (but slightly off from the color chart). So I guess part of my problem is reading it wrong. Maybe my other problem is when stuff gets kicked up from the substrate and raises the ammonia level? I wish there was a way to test the bacteria without killing my fish..

Tap water without any treatments or mixing RO is
pH of 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
and from the strips...
hardness 300 (very hard)
0 chlorine
alkalinity in the very high range

 

[librarygirl]

how high were the ammonia levels yesterday? If they are so high to cause stress to the fish it's probably best to do a good sized water change to get the levels down (water changes won't affect the cycle). Prime will help but it only detoxifies for a certain period of time. You could try leaving out a glass of tap water for 24 hours (stir it occasionally) and then test levels again; see if the ammonia levels changes. Something has to be spiking the ammonia levels as one danio shouldn't be causing ammonia to rise so fast. How fast does the ammonia spike after a water change and how high does it get?

 

[tweakz20]

Thank you.
After my most recent WC it took 2 days and the ammonia went up to 0.25 ppm (which was enough to make my fish bobble at the surface).

Prime is definitely screwing with my readings. I dosed it to lower the ammonia, then 26 hours later my nitrite was 0.5. 10 minutes after adding another dose of Prime and it went down to 0.

They say Prime doesn't interfere with cycling, but I don't think the detoxified nitrite is being picked out from the filter by any bacteria.

I'm going planted next week anyway.. I don't like this artificial look.. so that'll present it's own challenges.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello tweak...

Give yourself the best chance for success and get a larger tank if you can. I had all kinds of problems with the small tanks. Never got the hang of keeping them clean. You don't need a 150 gallon, just a 30 will do. I think you'll find the large tanks are much easier to maintain. Save the small tanks for much later, after you've gotten more experience.

B

 

[wildroseofky]

Prime will not affect your test. All it does is neutralize the chlorine and buffer the nitrite and nitrate so it will not be as bad for the fish. It in no way messes up the liquid test. Have you checked the expiration dates on the bottles? I have seen several post on the web about out of date tests being sold. Also review the instructions. I have seen several people say their tests were bad, but after being told to reread the instructions, they find they were not doing the test properly. It is easy to mess up. You have to really shake the bottle of the nitrate test. The bottle marked #2. If you don't, you get a bad result. I would do a massive water change, add some charcoal to the filter, and reset everything. Put sick fish in a quarantine tank or plastic tub. Sometimes it is best to start back at square one.

 

[tweakz20]

Hello tweak...

Give yourself the best chance for success and get a larger tank if you can. I had all kinds of problems with the small tanks. Never got the hang of keeping them clean. You don't need a 150 gallon, just a 30 will do. I think you'll find the large tanks are much easier to maintain. Save the small tanks for much later, after you've gotten more experience.

B

Thanks for the reply,
I can't get a larger tank, technically not even allowed to have this one because I live in an apartment and they consider it an "insurance liability," but I snuck it in and waddle it into the closet when the maintenance people come. Good point though.

 

[tweakz20]

Prime will not affect your test. All it does is neutralize the chlorine and buffer the nitrite and nitrate so it will not be as bad for the fish. It in no way messes up the liquid test. Have you checked the expiration dates on the bottles? I have seen several post on the web about out of date tests being sold. Also review the instructions. I have seen several people say their tests were bad, but after being told to reread the instructions, they find they were not doing the test properly. It is easy to mess up. You have to really shake the bottle of the nitrate test. The bottle marked #2. If you don't, you get a bad result. I would do a massive water change, add some charcoal to the filter, and reset everything. Put sick fish in a quarantine tank or plastic tub. Sometimes it is best to start back at square one.

Thanks for the reply,
I may have done the test incorrectly last night (when the nitrite was 0.5 and went to 0 after 10 mins of adding prime), I should have redone the test. The bottles also don't expire for another 5 years. I have charcoal in the filter already.. I agree about starting over and will be doing that next week going planted.