The dangers of Zoos...

[Phyl]

It didn't really occur to me that the stuff in our tanks could pose a health risk to our pets or children until I read a frightening account of a mans dog dieing from ingesting either water from the process of fragging zoos or the zoos themselves.

Just thought I'd throw the topic out there and see what your thoughts on the dangers of zoos really are. Any other high risk tank occupants? I thought I'd seen zoos in the easy to care for (read: even a newbie could take these on) category on some e-tailer sites. Seems to me that something that could kill my pets or children (or even potenially a fully grown man) should be in an expert category?

 

[electrikat]

Well they aren't exactly on the menu at Mcdonalds. I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to consume them. Antifreeze will kill your pets and make your children and adults sick if consumed too. There is a certain risk and responsibility to just about anything animal, vegetable and mineral in your home. You don't leave chemicals out for your children and pets to get into and you shouldn't leave anything related to your aquarium out and exposed to them either. The fact is that they are some of the easiest corals to keep and even a newbie can have them, but, there is a certain maturity and responsibility and common sense involved and assumed. This is my opinion and others may vary.

 

[reefrunner69]

Zoos contain palytoxin (as do all palythoa and protopalythoa sp) which is a very deadly neurotoxin. It is leathal to humans @ 4 micrograms.

Do a search for palytoxin and you'll get quite a few hits that go into more detail on how to protect yourself.

 

[arminkropp]

Hmmm interesting!
I just read that Palytoxin is the most toxic natural product known to man! 8O
You learn something new everyday!

 

[Phyl]

Elec... I know they aren't on a menu anywhere, but I'll bet that dog didn't exactly ingest a zoo... it probably lapped up some of the water innocently when the fishkeeper walked out of the room. It took a mere 12 hrs for the dog to die and there is no antitoxin. Pretty dramatic. Apparently just handling them can cause reactions in some people. I'm certainly not looking for the world to protect me from myself. That isn't why I started this thread. I started it because I was very surprised that after 2 months of extensive reading on what I can and can't put into my tank, how to care for what I do put in, etc, I've never come across anything until that thread on another forum that addressed palytoxin. I don't own any zoos, yet, was just starting to get serious about researching them. The thought that it was lethal at 4 micrograms was staggering to me. I came here, not to be ostracized for bringing up the topic, but to start a conversation about peoples thoughts on the care and maintenance of a tank with zoos.

Don't you think it might be good to chat about what you know, what you've seen, etc so that the newbies have a chance to learn about the potential dangers of a zoo? It only made sense to me. Sorry if I offended you with my topic!

 

[reefrunner69]

The fact is that they are some of the easiest corals to keep and even a newbie can have them, but, there is a certain maturity and responsibility and common sense involved and assumed. This is my opinion and others may vary.

They are also something that can kill you simply by moving them from one place in your tank to another, that might be something you might care to know about. You can he the nicest zoo collection on the planet, but if your dead you won't enjoy them. Precautions should be taken when handling these beautiful animals, for your sake and those around you.

Scenario: Your working in your tank, you had to move a rock full of zoos or you fragged them or some such, your small child is playing in the room while your working. You have had both hands in the tank, you are currently working with just one hand in the tank, your child grabbs the hand that's sitting outside the tank, swings your arm around, just playing and then runs off. What do you do? You continue working in your tank, but meanwhile your child goes into the next room and grabs a piece of candy, the childs hand is still wet from the water and coral slime that was on your hand, the child pops the candy in their mouth. lethat to adults at 4 micrograms, less for small children, how many micro grams are contained in the water and slime that were on your hands?

 

[electrikat]

Why do they not have any warnings on the websites that sell them then? I've seen warnings that corals will sting each other and fish but have never seen anything(except some toxic fish) that says they are toxic to people. Most people handle their corals as they are moved around in the tank so you would think there would at least be a warning to wear latex gloves or something.

To Phyl and everyone else. I did not mean to offend you at all. First, I did not realize that you were originally talking about a true toxin. I thought you were only talking about a general stinging type poison like anemones and most corals have that may be an irritant but not deadly. My apologies to all. I'll try to be more observant and less flippant in the future.

 

[reefrunner69]

Why do they not have any warnings on the websites that sell them then?

Because...

1) They are not on the menu
2) They are not regulated by the fda or any other regulating body (if the gov't didn't make them, no one would have warning labels on any of their products)

Other than those two reasons, I do not know why. Mostly the second reason, no one makes them.

 

[Phyl]

Kat, now you understand my intrigue at this seemingly quietly kept, but pertinent information!

 

[loganj]

It's really best to use latex gloves when working in your reef tank. I buy them in boxes of (I think) 100 pair. I also have a stainless trash can with a foot operated lid (cheap at Lowes) next to the tanks...used gloves go in there. I've learned a lot over the years about working with hazardous substances since I spend my days transporting and loading/unloading haz chemicals. As long as you use proper precautions along with a little common sense, you really don't have anything to worry about. Palytoxin is no different than any other potentially deadly substance...proper precautions pretty much negate the danger. I would think the biggest danger, as pointed out by Kevin, would be having small children and/or indoor pets around when you're working with zoos. Again...proper precautions + common sense = safety. I don't mean to minimize the dangers of palytoxin, just to point out that these critters can be handled safely. FWIW, I also wear glasses when fragging them...sometimes they will squirt all over you when you cut them.

 

[SeriousDude5]

Alright time for my input... I want to get zoos in my tank but all this talk about being killed and everything is kinda werid... What are the chances of someone actually dying from zoos also has it ever been reported... I usually worry about the electricty in my tank and not the corals. Well let me know I still think I am going to get some even if it could kill me I like the way they look

 

[ellisz]

If you are cutting zoos in the tank will a latex hand glove be adequate? Seems like water will still get through. I have cut zoos a few times and have seen a cloud hit the water but was never really sure if this was harmful or not. Most corals secrete something when cut.

This is a bit scary but you don't hear about issues very often. I bought some plastic gloves that extend up to your shoulder but I can't use a razor blade with them and seems like they always develop a leak.

As for fragging, are you removing the colony from the tank and cutting with gloves and glasses?

Thanks

 

[Jason]

seriously, how many people have died from fragging zoos?

 

[reefrunner69]

To my knowledge....none. But it would be hard to trace and keep track of.

 

[Phyl]

I've read about people having numbing sensations in their hands or weird reactions after having accidently wiped their mouth with a towel that they used to dry their hands. I'm glad to see that none of us know anyone (or of anyone) that has actually died from this (other than this guy's dog that I read about).

Does the water itself contain the toxin all of the time or is this a problem specifically with fragging them? I just need to know how and when to be a nutcase about this.

Has anyone had any reactions at all to the toxins?

 

[RocketSeason]

WOW! I never knew that about zoos. I guess that takes them off of my list. I wouldnt want my kittys to die.

-Matt

 

[Jason]

I think that some people may be more susceptible to the toxin. I've pulled zoas strait off of a rock with my bare hands, put them in a bag for a guy at the LFS, took them up there, and then with my bare hands took them out of the bag and stuck them into his nano. I know for a fact that I didn't was my hands and I probably ate a little something, and chewed on my finger nails and a bunch of other stuff that it would seem would be really dangerous. I've done that same thing a bunch of times and nothing has ever happened.

** BTW I don't have a death wish, the first time I ever read about them being toxic I stopped pretty much instantly and know I use a razor and was my hands really good every time. I'm probably luck I'm not dead....... that just goes to show you though, when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. I did however get these weird little bumps on my forearm that have since went away, I guess i didn't think it could have been my aquarium at the time and I though something just bit me.

 

[reefrunner69]

Hmmm, I think the real question is how many micrograms can one zoo produce? I't quite possible that there is not enough in one zoo to kill you, o maybe there is enough in one zoo to kill abunch of people. IMO, it's better safe than sorry, which you've illustrated by changing the way you work with them once you learned, and a few simple precautions will keep you safe.

 

[schoeplein]

Heh, am I the only one who found potential uses for this?


Just kidding, of course.

Every website I've ever shopped, on all coral/anemone/poisonous fish, it states something similar to, "Be careful, this guy's got toxins! Possible fatal allergic reaction. Use gloves or net when handling this creature. Mild irritation may occur, simply wash with warm fresh water."

Not necessarilly all of the above, but a mix and match of those sentences. Regardless, as much as everything looks "soooo cute, I want to pet it!", aquatic life is quite different from your cute puppy dog (who can also kill you if large enough, and aggressive enough). Seems if this were really an issue, it would have been brought up before. I'm curious how this guy had his tank setup that a dog (probably a small <50lb dog) was able to lap up liquid from his tank. The toxin from these coral probably has to be harvested to create 4 microgram anyways. I would assume numbing, and tingling would be a normal and tolerable sensation from slicing these things, possibly even ingesting them (tho not suggested) without worry. If you have allergies to anything else, however, you probably want to avoid anything that even suggest toxins. Stick to goldfish. *smirk*

Hopefully this does not detract from someone's decision to purchase something. People purchase sharks for christ's sakes.

 

[reefrunner69]

I'm curious how this guy had his tank setup that a dog (probably a small <50lb dog) was able to lap up liquid from his tank.

I beleive he was moving the tank and had the stuff in a rubbermaid tub for the move, it's been awhile since I read the thread, but that'
s the ist, the dog licked the zoos in a tub on the floor, not the tank.

Seems if this were really an issue, it would have been brought up before

It has been, there are probably dozens of threads on this board alone, (over the course of the last two years) that mention zoos as toxic, and probably a half dozen or so specifically about the toxicity of zoos. This information has been brought up several times over the years on every fish board I visit.