Tom's bumps/lumps

[jlk]

Thanks for the update! Some cloudiness is likely because the salinity upset your bacteria a bit combined with the minuscule amount of antibiotics excreted in the waste. No worries! Things will settle with time. Just keep an eye on your numbers and let us know if anything new develops or when you hit day 14.

 

[FranTom]

I did a 50% wc today after the below test results. Nitrites! Poor Tom. She looks horrible. I think she has a new bump coming up after waking up this morning to no bumps. She's totally bloated, her eye is def popped a bit, and I think her tail fins look thinner. So incredibly sad. She spent a lot of her day behind a few plants in the back. She ate about a pea and a half today and about 4-6 MG pellets. After the wc I saw her yawn a few times... Not sure what that is about.

In two weeks we (family and myself) are taking a week vacation out of state - and while I have hired a pet sitter - I am really worried about the tank cycle being off now and how they will fair that week (was previously planning to do a wc before we leave and then when we return - pet sitter won't change water - just feeds them).

 

[jlk]

You have have what looks like trace ammonia and nitrite and nitrate is a bit high. I was really hoping the medigold would help but it sounds like things are not improving. With the next wc, don't add back any salt. Hopefully, your tank will settle soon. How long do you have left on mg?

 

[FranTom]

Yeah, I did notice a possible trace ammonia too which is why I went ahead with the wc - but I did add back the salt. I'll test again tomorrow and won't add back salt at next wc, should I do less than 50% wc to slowly reduce the salinity?

They have 6 more days on MG. Should I be seeing more improvement at this halfway point? Do you think it might be a parasite??? Her tankmate, Francisco seems to be thriving (although his poops do have some white sometimes). Tom only had very thin poop today.

 

[jlk]

Its not a parasite. Its an internal infection of some sort but without a someone to ID the bacteria, all we can do is try meds and hope something works. The MG is pretty much the top of the line for meds as it contains kanamycin and he is getting the med internally. I would have expected some improvement after a week on it. Lets see how he is doing at the end of 6 days and go from there!

 

[FranTom]

Ok. Sounds like a plan. Better colors this morning. Tom seems to be a bit more active too - probably feeling the healthier water. I'm torn on if I should do a wc today or not - it seemed to stress her a bit yesterday and plus maybe one more day of the full-strength salinity would be good? I'll test it again this evening maybe and see.

Quick question - when you do a wc are you adding enough prime for the full tank capacity or just the amount for the replacement water? I was always adding for my full tank capacity seeing as I read online that Prime only lasts about 24 hrs in the tank anyway, but a girl at PM told me that's too much and she "almost killed" her fish doing the same thing. I dismissed her suggestion but decided to "play it safe" and only add for the replacement water in the replacement water prior to adding. Then lately, I was wondering if that previous method hurt Tom and which is better?

 

[FranTom]

A few pics from my phone... First is a huge poop on a plant this morning - I'm assuming from Francisco -- mostly white and eww it's long! And a couple of Tom (she's not easy to get good pics of - caught her when she was obsessing about uprooting the plant behind her which I just fixed last night).

 

[FranTom]

Tom checking herself out in the tank reflection.

 

[jlk]

See how your numbers look and do a wc if needed. Go ahead with a another day of salt if he seems to be bit better! Water are changes are bit stressful but unhealthy water is more stressful for fish, especially if they are not well.

In respect to the Prime, I always dose to the tank size and use extra of a basic dechlorinator because my water has very high chlorine levels. I think you will find most people dose this way and some even add a second dose to the tank size after wc. Prime can be safely dosed to 5x a standard dose with no problems. If the store employee had a problem, it was likely due to something else that occurred and had nothing to do with the Prime (unless she dumped half the bottle into her tank). Without knowing anything about her situation, its impossible to say what really happened.

 

[FranTom]

I did another wc - can't seem to keep the nitrates down (typically, before all this medication I would see 20ppm nitrates at the most before a weekly wc!! So this stresses me out a bit) and again it's questionable if ammonia is present or not. I added the salt back in, Tom seems improved today in her activity level, appetite, and poop output. Maybe she was a bit constipated yesterday.

Fingers crossed....

 

[FranTom]

This has gotten kind of gross.

I thought we were making progress with the salt and MG, but this morning Tom had another two bumps. (Did a 50% wc last night but the ammonia and nitrites were 0 and the nitrates were 40ppm before the wc.) The bumps: One got huge - biggest one so far - throughout the day and then just an hour ago a hard white chunk came out of it an then it was gone. I removed the chunk from the aquarium and took some pictures. I think it's puss as its very mushy and... I hate to gross anyone out here, but stinky! Once it was out, it looks like nothing was even there on her. The other bump is still there, but there is no bleeding or hole or anything. Her eyes are bulging and her body is swollen to the max. Her face is yellowish. She's still swimming, eating, etc but she's staying in the back of the tank and bumps into the filter and plants as if she doesn't see.

The past two weeks of this I have done nothing but google for several hours every night goldfish diseases and bumps and lumps. I think I found another goldfish who had a similar shorter lived issue that someone treated with melafix and pimafix - so I dosed the tank with melafix and will get the pimafix tomorrow. I don't want her to suffer, so I'm kind of feeling like this is a last ditch effort.

Here is pictures of the bump with the chunk coming out and the thing that came out. It doesn't appear to be a parasite. It was impossible to get a picture of her when she was not over the bubble curtain! :/

 

[jlk]

Oh my goodness!!! My best guess was that he had furunculosis which is an infection affecting primarily goldfish and koi believed to be caused by aeromonas bacteria and may be further complicated with flukes. Kanamycin is suggested which you are using.

I did a bit more looking this morning as I honestly have not seen this before and without lab diagnostics, its impossible to say what this may be. I did find something that appears to match his description (bloated, bulging eyes, white cysts/bumps that burst) called glugea. Its not common and caused by a protozoa. Its not treatable, unfortunately. Ill post two links below with more info on both disease issues.

Furunculosis: Hole in the Side Disease

Aquarium tropical fish disease diagnostics. Fish treatment. Sick fish, ill fish, cure fish.


Feel free to email wetwebmedia/Bob Fenner (add pics, too) and ask for his opinion. He usually responds within a day and may have seen this before as I have not. Please keep us posted!

 

[FranTom]

How do I contact Bob?

It does actually sound like the second disease you mentioned - which is horrifying! I feel horrible for keeping Tom with Francisco now!! He shows no signs - maybe he will be okay??

 

[jlk]

Google Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information - his email contact should be listed on there somewhere. I used to have it but at the moment, can not find it! I have contacted him on occasion in the past and he was wonderfully helpful! You do not need to join their site/forum for help either (the forum area is separate from contacting him directly).

 

[FranTom]

Found it! Thank you!!!!

 

[FranTom]

I heard from Bob right away - less than an hour after emailing him! He said it might be glugea or could be the high pH or genetics, etc. He suggested I work on the water quality (lowering pH and keeping nitrates under 20ppm) and wait and see. He suggested stopping all meds. I don't even know where to begin with lowering the pH -- I've read through all the water quality articles on WWM and elsewhere and I'm overwhelmed to say the least. Our water is hard (which is why the house has a water softner system, but for the fish I draw from a hose source that does not go through the softner system) -- so of course the KH will be high and thus the pH -- but there are so many people who keep fish around here (and fish stores) --- what do they do?? We have made a huge financial and emotional investment (not to mention a ton of time and energy) towards these two goldies and certainly feels like all my efforts are to waste.

I feel pretty defeated. Tom is breathing harder tonight and I'm really starting to feel like she's probably suffering. I don't want to give up on her and I am also really afraid for Francisco (who seems fine still), but I want to be a responsible fishkeeper too.

<shrugs> Unsure where to go from here.

 

[jlk]

High ph or low ph? I thought your ph was in the mid to low 6's which is on the acidic side for goldfish. High ph is not an issue with goldfish unless it's something extreme (9+).

 

[FranTom]

My pH used to be low (6.5) for many months -- then for some reason my tap water pH went up (8.0 to 8.2). Bob said keep it under 8.0 -- which from what I am reading will not be easy with hard water.

 

[FranTom]

Can I ask, if this was your goldie, what would you do?

 

[jlk]

I disagree on the ph completely and think its in an ideal range for goldfish. I honestly would not touch it. The very low ph was an issue.

That said, it's a very tough call here. A vet as I suggested previously could specifically help ID what is going on but as this isnt a feasible option, you need to consider her well being and quality vs quantity of life. Is she eating? Active? Interested in life and her surroundings?