Tried to fishless cycle and... I failed, need help.

[chrisf707]

This is my first tank (20 gal), and I came here before I bought any fish. I started a fishless cycle about a month and a half ago. I added the ammonia and got it to stay steadily at about 4.5ppm. Nitrite showed up about 18 days in and started climbing to 5ppm. After the nitrite showed up and got to about 5ppm, the ammonia started dropping, so I added some more(about 30 days in). I did this again at about 40 days in, but nitrAte still hadn't shown up. This is about the time I STUPIDLY started to slack on monitoring the cycle. I never saw nitrAte and now im back to all zeros for ammonia and nitrite. Im so upset at myself because Im guessing I was a few weeks away from being done.

So im assuming I have stalled or killed my cycle, my question is what can I do now? Just start over? Does it usually take more than a month and a half for nitrate to show up? Would it matter if I did a PWC or entire water change now that its stalled?

I forgot to add, the only seed material I was able to get for my pervious attempted cycle was an artificial plant from my friends tank. Im assuming if I start the cycle up again, it would help to get another seeding source? Should I just try to get something better this time, like a filter pad?

Looking for any suggestions to make this cycle as fast as possible.

Thanks in advance for your help and recommendations!

PS: Does anyone know if there is a formula to calculate how much ammonia to add? For example, when ammonia starts dropping, how can I determine how many ML to add, if I want to increase it from 2 to 4?

 

[Deep Seven]

Have you tested for nitrates?

Myself I'd test for nitrates, do a PWC if they're high, and add ammonia asap to keep the bacteria happy. Get it to 4 or 5ppm, record the time, 24 hours later test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. If you have
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
And increased nitrates then you have a cycled tank.

Myself I'd test it every 3-4 hours if you can to see ammonia drop and try to catch nitrites spiking in case you get nitrites in your 24hr test, so you know your starting point.

If ammonia stays at or near the same PPM then cycle was probably killed. But there may be enough nitrIte->nitrate bacteria around to cycle much faster the second time.

If ammonia drops, but doesn't disappear after 24hrs, then keep re-dosing ammonia to your 4 or 5ppm, and cycle as normal, it will hopefully recover quickly.

 

[chrisf707]

I did test for nitrates, there are none. Im pretty sure my cycle is killed. Can anyone help with any of my other questions?

 

[Deep Seven]

PS: Does anyone know if there is a formula to calculate how much ammonia to add? For example, when ammonia starts dropping, how can I determine how many ML to add, if I want to increase it from 2 to 4?

I'd make my own formula. Get a container, 5 or 10 gallons. Add 1 drop per gallon. Test for ammonia and call ppm you get "test results".
dpg = drops per gallon.
1 dpg = A
A = test results in ppm
Q = Your tank volume in gallons
Y = your current tanks ammonia in ppm
Z = your desired tanks ammonia in ppm
W = dpg you need to add to get Z if Y = 0
V = dpg needed to go from Y to Z
HOORAY! = drops you need to add your tank to get your desired amonia ppm

Formula 1: Z/A=W
Formula 2: (1-(Y/Z))*(Z/A)=V
Formula 3: V*Q=HOORAY!

If your tanks ammonia is zero, you can skip formula 2 and use W*Q=HOORAY!

If a mathematician could check my formulas for acuracy. I think I got it right, but there may be a typo or mistake I missed.

 

[chrisf707]

My nitrites started to come back up and my ammonia started to drop, guess I didnt kill it after all! yay

 

[XimeD]

PS: Does anyone know if there is a formula to calculate how much ammonia to add? For example, when ammonia starts dropping, how can I determine how many ML to add, if I want to increase it from 2 to 4?

Does it say the concentration of ammonia in the bottle you buy it from? If so then you would need to convert that concentration into ppm (which I can explain how if u have it) and then apply the following formula. Using C for concentration and V for volume

CammoniaXVammonia=CintankVtotal

Where Vtotal = vol in tank + vol of ammonia added. This is an exact dilution formula used in chemistry but for you the vol of ammonia added will probably be very small compared to vol in tank so you can probably use volume in tank as your Vtotal. I would also reduce 10-20% from your tank size to account for gravel and decorations (ie for a 20gal tank I would assume there are 18 or 19 gals of water in it)

Also the Cammonia (this is the concentration of ammonia in the bottle you bought) and the Cintank have to be in the same units (ppm) for this to work and likewise when you solve for Vammonia (which is how much ammonia you will need to add) you will initially get the answer in gals and you can convert that to mL (1 gal = 3785.41mL)

Another note: 1 drop = roughly 0.20mL

Hope this helps, I am happy to explain this further (I'm a chemist)

 

[XimeD]

I'd make my own formula. Get a container, 5 or 10 gallons. Add 1 drop per gallon. Test for ammonia and call ppm you get "test results".
dpg = drops per gallon.
1 dpg = A
A = test results in ppm
Q = Your tank volume in gallons
Y = your current tanks ammonia in ppm
Z = your desired tanks ammonia in ppm
W = dpg you need to add to get Z if Y = 0
V = dpg needed to go from Y to Z
HOORAY! = drops you need to add your tank to get your desired amonia ppm

Formula 1: Z/A=W
Formula 2: (1-(Y/Z))*(Z/A)=V
Formula 3: V*Q=HOORAY!

If your tanks ammonia is zero, you can skip formula 2 and use W*Q=HOORAY!

If a mathematician could check my formulas for acuracy. I think I got it right, but there may be a typo or mistake I missed.

Math is right, this should work too. He would only need to change the definition of A if 1dpg gives either no detectable readingn (unlikely - would only happen if he is using very dilute ammonia source solution) or an off the scale reading (using a very concentrated ammonia source solution).