Trying so hard to save this fish

[lmj049]

He is still alive and still laying sideways if I don't support him... we started him on medicated food and ick treatments... that was recommended by a pond guy in a couple towns away from me and it's a week today he still laying sideways... I'm tempted to stick a syringe in his swimbladder to see if he's got air I can release. I'm discouraged really bad my other fish all went outside in the pond in a doing well ..I don't know what else I can do

 

[J.Mcpeak]

If I understand correctly post 20.

"we are now running a whole lot of salt water through the filter and 55 tank hoping to get this tank back into proper working order ... we will run the heavy salt water until tomorrow to really give it a cleaning"

You need to be careful with filter bacteria, significant changes in salinity have a different set of bacteria that handle nitrogenous waste. Each "type" will die when it is outside of its survival range. (Osmotic pressure differential causes cells to rupture)

This is something I must observe when acclimating figure 8 puffers from store freshwater to the correct brackish environment. Everything slowly, over weeks.

This could account for the ammonia spiking.

Also, if I understand you properly, your house water is prefiltered for you.
Check your filters. They may not be compatible with making water suitable for fish.

Temperature shock can work both ways, so acclimating fish is a good idea. Most pond fish are ok outside year round unless the pond is likely to freeze over or isn't deep enough to ensure the 4'c thermocline, usual in ponds at this time.

Sorry I can't help further but ponds are not really my thing! I'm a tropical bloke.
Hopefully this will resolve itself in a good way as you really seem to care.

 

[Betta keeper]

Is he eating greens and stuff?

Tetra fungas guard is a great med for if he has anything bacterial/fungal causing his swim bladder issue.

You could put his tank to about 75, to speed up digestion, without stressing him...that's summer water temperature

There's also a way to make a harness so that he can swim a bit

 

[lmj049]

Going to try colloidal silver but I don't know how much for 55 gallon if anybody knows let me know

 

[Betta keeper]

I don't know much about alternative medicine for fish, sorry

The most I have ventured into there is garlic and salt

Btw, garlic in the fish tank stinks up the house [emoji13]

 

[lmj049]

Ty for your input I'm on 1 1/2 months with this problem all of the harnesses I made for him has damaged his body someway so I'll use the contraption and when I see a little body damage then I go to the net then I'll use the contraption and then I go to the net.... we go back and forth because when I use the contraption he eats really good but in the net he can't eat because he's up in the tank more in the middle .... the tank finally cycled and it's less water changes finally. But he is still sideways always

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Lack of correct buoyancy is usually related to the swim bladder.

 

[lmj049]

So do u recommend anything?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

This is my little guy View attachment 296650

This picture (and my next statement is based solely on it)

Copied in from elsewhere, just trying to help!


"Skinny Disease (clown loach can be prone to this)

The disease is caused by a bacterial infection that causes the fish to have a sucked-in gill appearance. Its head will often appear much bigger than the rest of its body.

Treating Skinny Disease: Adding extra food to the fish’s diet can usually clear up this disease. However, sometimes this doesn’t help and if the bacterial infection persists, adding erythromycin to the fish’s food normally clears the infection up quickly."

"Chilodonella: Some of the symptoms included with this protozoan parasite are: dying on the surface and rolling over on the fish’s s sides. This is a notorious killer of koi.

Treating Chilodonella: You will want to increase the salt concentration in the pond for 2 weeks as well as increasing aeration.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
What is considered to be a normal salt concentration for koi?
(I thought they were freshwater fish)

What type of salt are you using?
What is your concentration/administration method?

Can you get any more pictures, particularly the gill site (each side)
An overall side shot, a top shot, abdominal area (pectoral to anal fin)
They may be of some use if the above isn't any help at all!
If the fish is still alive, there is hopefully time to diagnose it properly.

I don't know much about koi but most ill health is the same with only a few species specific diseases.

You should go slowly, target each suspect individually, and complete fully the recommended course of action. Be careful mixing treatment.

Edit.....
Just a thought,
What happens when the fish is not in the net?

 

[lmj049]

He is on his side always at bottom I have been keeping the salt at 2 on the monitor thingy I was told koi could even live in three so I probably should put it up to three he is skinny with a big head I don't think he has belly bloat but I do see his belly sticking out a little because he's so thin . He has a lot of air ...we were using salt from tractor supply company which was recommended by a fish guy at Woodstock Fair cheaper than aquarium salt... he is on medicated food which I also add peas every other day cuz he's so thin ... The medicated food says only feed him that so I really am doing very small amount of peas just cause I'm nervous about thin I don't think he's getting the medicated food much because he can't swallow it and when it melts it's sitting at the bottom of the tank so I switch to Epsom salt yesterday to see if that makes a difference The contraption I made for him is an air tube in a circle around his tail only with a balloon with hardly any air in it hooked to that circle tube it works perfect he eats well when that's on but it makes his skin red so I use that every other day I'm looking up the two words you said that may help him. Thanks for your input! Adding pictures in a min

 

[lmj049]

 

[lmj049]

I took 4 but it somehow sent 8 ... 2 of the same. Sorry.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Looking at the first picture.
Looks very much like skinny disease. It is pretty much a carbon copy of all pictures associated with skinny disease.

If it can be fixed, it's with a lot of feeding! Or meds from that previous text copied in.
There may be something more suitable? Nearby or completely different in different parts of the world?

Probably and from my limited knowledge of pond life cycles.......
You must have some sort of high protein spring food you know for bulking up after winter. That fish needs to put weight on.

I'm reading off line about this and I've asked for the most knowledgable koi person in the pond department here (savvy koi keepers). Hopefully somebody who keeps koi or has hands on with this exact disease will confirm or point you in the right direction.

At the moment I'd go with skinny disease 1st.

Does it eat ok?
If it does, feed it as much as it will take a few times a day. (Keep check on water)
Hopefully that will buy some time.......

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Copied in from link.......


After another week of this I remembered hearing about an "eating disorder" in Koi and that there was a vitamin that would help. I contacted a friend and he said he had something similar happen, although not as severe, and he fed a paste food with 400mg of vitamin E in it. Soon his Koi began eating again and the problem was solved. My issue was this, the Torazo Kohaku was skin and bones and it would not eat so how was i going to get the vitamin E into it. Vitamin E gel caps was the solution I thought. I went out and bought some, used a needle that we use to draw blood ( the vitamin E was a very thick fluid) drew the contents out of one 400mg gel cap and injected it IP into the Torazo Kohaku.

Koi Story


You could soak food in vitamin E?
That may work if you are unable to administer by IV

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Copied in AGAIN!

Provide just enough food so that after five minutes it has all been eaten. On Koi farms in summer, smaller Koi (i.e. below 15-20 cm/6-8in in length) are fed five percent of their body weight per day, where-as large mature Koi (i.e. over 20cm/8in long) are only fed two percent. The nutritional value of Koi food is calculated by weight and not by volume. Normally, 1kg (2.21b) of fish food will increase Koi growth by 500gm or even 700gm in favorable conditions. In the winter, provide wheat germ based diets on a maintenance basis, in order to keep the body functions ticking over, since it is too cold for the Koi to grow. Wheat germ is also a good source of Vitamin E.

Koi Nutrition - Koi Health and Information

 

[lmj049]

He can't swallow the medicated pellets they have to melt a bit before he can take them. That's why I'm doing peas

 

[lmj049]

I'll try feeding more ty I'll look at that sight

 

[lmj049]

You injected the vitamin E into the fishes body like through the skin?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

He can't swallow the medicated pellets they have to melt a bit before he can take them. That's why I'm doing peas

Melt the medicated pellets first, also try mixing it with a bit of wheat germ (assuming you have this food) to boost vit E.
Not sure what meds you are giving the fish, are they relevant?
If not, finish the course and change tact.

Pretty sure there isn't much vitamin e in a green pea, spinach or kale would be better if the fish recognises this as food?
Spirulina is good for vit E (look for a high spirulina content if it's a flake)
All of my fish that eat flake type foods readily took this on day one.

You injected the vitamin E into the fishes body like through the skin?

No. I didn't inject anything into a fish!

I did read up about skinny disease as it was/is known to haunt clown loaches.
I keep clown loach! I keep notes.
That's as far as my understanding goes, I learnt to recognise it.
From what I read it boils down to a nutritional thing. As with most fish disease, it's water quality or nutritional as the most likely candidates for the onset of disease.

I can not offer any advice on what is essentially a veterinarian practice.

......I could even be wrong.....but in my opinion, it looks like this.

What is the fishes diet annually?
Does it change?
How is the food kept?

(Here, you must realise, it might not be your fault. This fish could be getting pushed out of the way by bigger fish. So I'm not directing these questions like, hey you did something wrong, I'm just asking as this is the method I go through with my own stock.)

 

[lmj049]

Ok here's what happened. We put the fish outside in February then the weather dropped into the teens and he fell sideways. So we took him in the house and we put all the rest back in the garage where they were for the winter he was still big when he turned sideways he lost weight the first week I had him in here because he couldn't swallow anything and I didn't know about Peas yet so he lost that weight because he couldn't swallow... he is on Debride RX Medicated Koi food and Peas ...I got him to eat a little bit oranges today and I soaked some white kidney beans in vitamin E and tried to get him to eat that because kidney beans are full of protein.. so he went sideways cuz of the cold weather came on to fast and he might of been week from hibernation because we don't feed them in the winter... we were told that's not good for them when their hibernating because they can't digest the food when it's too cold that's what happened