Typical fish in cycle

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Brettyd

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Aug 22, 2015
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Australia
Hi

I'm just wondering what the typical trends are in a cycle?

How many days before you should see nitrite and how many days before nitrate?

I understand it takes time and patience plus there are many variables such as fish numbers, bio media, tank size.

Just looking for a rough guideline of when to expect certain parts of the cycle


:fish2:
 
Hi



I'm just wondering what the typical trends are in a cycle?



How many days before you should see nitrite and how many days before nitrate?



I understand it takes time and patience plus there are many variables such as fish numbers, bio media, tank size.



Just looking for a rough guideline of when to expect certain parts of the cycle





:fish2:


9-13 days ammonia decreases. 13-24 days nitrite rises. Days 24-27 nitrites fall and nitrate rises.



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Even I learned something today ;)


Caleb


That's the expected cycle phase. If you want to read the research we conducted on it look up a thread 'post your test data' I think my days might be out slightly though


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Nitrification can be varied by temp, PH and types of lighting. There cannot be a blanket timeline. The following explains the variables: Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

Please note: the article is put out by a company that sells biological products ( Fritzyme) and I offer it only for the data it contains and not as a sales pitch for their product. I have used their products and have had success with them just as others have used other company's products with similar results. Again, the facts are what I am trying to show you. (y)
That said, I've had tanks take from 4 weeks to as long as 6 month to fully cycle. Patience is the key. :)

Hope this helps (y)
 
Nitrification can be varied by temp, PH and types of lighting. There cannot be a blanket timeline. The following explains the variables: Nitrifying Bacteria Facts



Please note: the article is put out by a company that sells biological products ( Fritzyme) and I offer it only for the data it contains and not as a sales pitch for their product. I have used their products and have had success with them just as others have used other company's products with similar results. Again, the facts are what I am trying to show you. (y)

That said, I've had tanks take from 4 weeks to as long as 6 month to fully cycle. Patience is the key. :)



Hope this helps (y)


I know this article Andy thanks. Did you read the thread I posted at all?


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The times given are based on the assumption all parameters have been met by the way.


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That's the expected cycle phase. If you want to read the research we conducted on it look up a thread 'post your test data' I think my days might be out slightly though


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Thanks for the original average cycle trend that was all I really was after a rough guide of cycle events. I realise all tanks are different but I like have a rough idea of when I may see some events occur.

I could not find the specific thread mentioned 'post your test results' but there also some other good reading to be had there.

Just so you know I'm 2 weeks in my cycle with not much action yet in no2/3, I'd say it's about to swing in the next few days.


:fish1:
 
I know this article Andy thanks. Did you read the thread I posted at all?


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Actually, NO, I didn't. But don't take that as negativity towards it. :flowers:

I've had enough experience with cycling all types and sizes of tanks and waters to know that there cannot be a "standardized" answer to this question, only to the process. Based on how the OP presented the question, your answer seemed too specific with a time line. As you've read in the article I listed, many different parameters will cause different results so I'm curious how you can assume all parameters are met? What are all parameters? In actuality, it happens when it happens and it happens only in certain ways. ( Ammonia is converted to nitrites which is later converted to nitrates.) For example, with a brand new tank, freshly set up, tested every day, if you never had an ammonia reading but have a nitrate reading on day 7, it's not from the biological. The tank is not cycled. Same as if it were on day 27. Obviously, the nitrates were from another source ( most likely the source water) and the tank is not cycled. Based on the timeline you presented, day 27 should mean the tank is cycled due to the presence of nitrates without the presence of ammonia. Maybe I'm being picky here but do you see the issue? What if the aquarist never tested the water and on day 27 saw that example? There's a new disaster waiting to happen. :blink: And those numbers were way off for the tanks that took 4-6 months to cycle and these tanks had similar water parameters to ones that only took 6 weeks. There are just too many variables.
So this is why I usually answer these types of threads about cycling the way I do when the question is about time. It's just not concrete enough to have timelines. "This is the process. If you were to graph it on paper and connected the dots, the picture would look like a 2 1/2 humped camel. ( The half hump is the nitrates ;) ) " That's the best answer I can think of. :whistle:

Hope this helps someone. (y)
 
To the OP, it's been my experience that in a new tank with no ammonia absorbers ( ie plants or chemical products such as AmmoCarb or ammonia reducers), you should see some ammonia in your tests after 7-10 days. If not, you may need to increase your ammonia source or check your other parameters. (y)
 
Ok guys don't draw your pistols and take 10 paces.

I appreciate both answers. Andy you are right and your answer is very technical. For your peace of mind I am testing my water and probably should have stated this so there was no confusion.

However I did ask for a guideline which is technically not an exact answer and I did state myself that I am aware there are many variables which could alter the process involved in the cycle.

Thanks guys.
 
Ok guys don't draw your pistols and take 10 paces.

I appreciate both answers. Andy you are right and your answer is very technical. For your peace of mind I am testing my water and probably should have stated this so there was no confusion.

However I did ask for a guideline which is technically not an exact answer and I did state myself that I am aware there are many variables which could alter the process involved in the cycle.

Thanks guys.
No problem. (I'll take 15 paces ;) :ROFLMAO: )
Understanding the exact nature of the cycling process is the key to every successful aquarium and not understanding, the usual cause of unsuccessful starts. Not being a great mind reader, ;);) I can only answer questions as they are asked and not necessarily how they were intended. :whistle:
That said, there are many ways of changing the time frames to cycling a tank ( old school versus new school) but the actual process never changes. So if you understand the process, at any time during the cycling, you can tell how things are progressing ( or not.)
Have no fear, this was not a fight. (y) Just age vs youth probably. ;) Just trying to explain what CAN happen and has over many years. (y)

In the days I used to work in the shops, before I would sell a tank setup to a newbie, I used to make people buy a book on WHY they were doing what they were going to be doing so that they would know. In the long run, it helped both me and the customer. Just trying to help bring that to AA as well. (y)(y)

So if you want, chart your readings and you will see the humps as I described. Works that way every time. Pretty cool if you ask me. ;) :D
 
BrettyD my mistake, the thread was called post your test data not results.

We spent a lot of time trying to address why so many people were having problems when cycling their aquariums. Particularly fishlessly.

A lot of knowledgeable and useful members participated in that thread and here is one of the papers that came out of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC124703/#!po=13.1579

This is an experiment conducted by Dr Hanovec and co. I believe he is the founder of Dr tims products?

Of course the experiment was carried out under perfect conditions that may or may not exist is some of our aquariums but the the results according to these scientist were 'to be expected' and the dates for establishing a nitrogen cycle are described within.

This article also explains how it is not the commonly thought nitrobacter that is found during the nitrite oxidising phase but rather nitrospira. The article supplied by Andy has data for nitrobacter only and is perhaps a little outdated.

I was never a big fan of Dr Tim because I believed he was just a salesman in a lab coat trying to baffle people in to buying his products.

What is interesting is that many commercial bacteria additives contain the nitrobacter strain however, These experiments show that aquariums that received the additives did oxidise nitrite faster by a few days but the only hypothesis is that the additives contained nutrients and vitamins that may have stimulated reproduction.

Cycles in reality are a different beast however I would be a little concerned if a cycle was taking more that a month and a half. Things that affect the bacteria are the parameters of which are described in Andys article for sure but others play a major role too. Alkalinity and available nutrients for example, phosphorous of which is a major player but is very low in most tap waters. The more ammonia you add the more these vital nutrients are drawn upon and the more likely the cycle will run in to problems.

Then there are the things the aquarist did not tell you for example, they washed the sponges mid cycle or the didn't dechlorinate their water or there water is too soft and devoid of nutrients. All bacteria need to draw on these nutrients and there are a lot more in our tanks than just the ones we want to see for our cycle.

Test kit errors, impatience, interfering all these can cause problems with a cycle and make them seem longer.

The fact is that with exponential binary fission remaining constant under the right conditions (of which most of use provide) the cycle should in theory be established by day 38.

Then comes the addition of more livestock more feed, washing of sponges, disturbing gravel, medications etc etc and all these can upset the cycle and cause problems. The bacterial bloom comes next followed by ammonia spikes, fish deaths etc. just take things easy and don't mess too much like I did.

Good luck.

Hope this helps.


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