Uh Oh....update 5/14

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jaysono

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
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Well, I'm kinda looking at this entry as a continutaion of my previous "Uh Oh....Levels are climbing" post. in order to keep it alive, get your continuing advice,a nd to share a day to day experience of cycling a tank for new hobbyist's.

I think the hardest thing to do is to sit back and listen to good advice, but panic anyway, and wonder why steps are taking a more dramatic action.

Even though the 16 gal tank (w/ 4 danios) had been doing well since inception 5 weeks ago, I never got the dreaded Amonia spike or New Tank Syndrome as described. My miniscule (I say that as compared to my new levels) levels of .25-.50 ppm Amonia was noteworthy, and I 'thought' that was the spike.

'Lo and behold earlier this week, amonia climbed from .50 to 1.0 over night. So I cut out one feeding, ammo lock in hand, vacuumed gravel and was replaceing about 1 gal of water each day with fresh RO water.

With everyone's advice, I decided to make a more drastic water change last night...upto 4 gal (25% of tank). To my shock when I walked in the door at 4:30, my tank now looked like a cloud of split peas soup in 10 hours!!! Yes my clear tank I left in the morning was now murky 10 hours later. So of course I dropped everything and went for the uber water change of 4 gal with my siphon yet again. There was a little debris/waste, but very little and I added back 4 gal of fresh water along with 3/4 Tbsp of aquarium salt to boot (to replace the salt I've been sucking out over the last week and total of 8 gal of water over the last week).

Since I starved my fish yesterday morning, I gave in and fed just barely a pinch and they were eager, and still seemed pretty darn active.

Of course I woke up at 4am this morning...my wife was sound asleep and went out to look at my tank. All 4 danios were still alive (I was worried) and active...

Finally when I did get up this morning at 6:45 I took another water sample. The amonia test increments get wider after 1.0. It goes 1.0, 2.0, 4.0, 8.0. Well, to my continued dismay and shock my amonia is now reading between 4.0 & 8.0 so who know the exact level.

My fish behavior still seems normal. They are not 'crashing', do not appear to be gasping for air, they were eager for yet another small pinch this morning. Water is still cloudy, not as bad, but still there, yet no smell now.

I guess my question's are: 1) I assume another 3-4 gal water change tonight? 2) How big do these spikes get? I can't believe that 4 danios allowed the water to go from 1.5 to over 4.0 in 24 hours...they still seem active. 3) How long to these spikes last? I also tested my nitrites this morning..and shockingly still at .25ppm

I'm glad I can share this with you all and hope you don't mind I'm continuing my threads.... :?
 
This is all odd. Tanks can and do get murky during cycling--nothing to worry about. With the water change, I am surprised the ammonia went up so quickly. Not only that, but the danios are doing well.
I'm going to think on this for a while. Since the fish are fine, don't panic.
 
Are you using a kit witha one step ammonia test? (Nessler's)
maybe that is why the fluctuating levels.
And fish seeming fine.
Well..remains to be seen..they can succumb with burned partiallly damaged gills to a nitrate spike later in the cycle or just stress into the nastiest case of ich ever,
I always look at it as it's not over til it's over. Fish are tough little guys who can surprisingly survive a singular episode of horrific surroundings. It is the one-two punches that get them.

With those high readings I would be making 50% changes and just dealing with the slow down of the cycle to preserve the fish health.
Good luck! And always err to the side of caution!
 
jaysono-posted: Thu May 13 said:
My nitrite level still registers at .25ppm and has not budged.

I'm using Aquarium Pharm testing products. It has the duel regeant bottles...8 drops of each solution, mix, and wait 5 minutes.

Dechlorinator is Bio-coat from Marineland and/or Bio-Stress from Aquarium Pharm as well.

BTW, Menagerie....thanks for all your prompt advice and interest
Click to expand...

heh, I missed that post in the other thread..so that means it is likely a Nesslers? since it is not a three step kit?

and jay..post all the readings of each test day..you are checking every 3 days min while fish are cycling with the tank.. yes?
 
Taking Menageries adivce, I'll continue my posts from here on out in this thread and open no new ones.

To answer your question, I was doing tests every 3 days, but since I noted the ammo increase, it has been daily.
 
Went out an bought a Nitrate kit last night.

Came home and noticed the water clarity cleaned up considerably. While still not 100% from a few days before, it appears that whatever cloud I kicked up has settled down.

Made another 1.5 gal water change as well, and fish are still alive and very active.

Nitrate test registed 5.0ppm, I take that to be pretty good.
Nitrate test registers .25 ppm.

This morning did another ammo test: Again somewhere between 4.0 - 8.0 according to color chart.

Will wait a little later int the day and do another water change...daily water changes are getting mundane :x
 
I've gone thru the process cycling a tank with a few fancy goildies and I've made more then my fair share of newbie mistakes before I found this forum and the good people who helped me with their advice. Below is a list of what I did after I seen the light here on AA and maybe you'll be able to apply some of my experience to help you get thru this cycle.

Test your water daily and keep a log of the results. Its the only way to track your progress.

Do not feed the fish more then once a day and make it a small feeding.

Do not change the filter pads. Clean it only when there totally clogged and only clean then by swishing them in tank water that you removed from the tank from a water change.

When doing water changes to control high levels of ammonia and NO2 change 50% of the water. If the levels are still very high do another 50% change.
Any water change less then 50% will not effect the levels of ammonia or NO2 in a significant way. Just before the cycle finished I experienced levels of 5.0 ppm of ammonia and over 1 ppm of NO2. Changing 10% to 20% of the water will not drop the levels. I was doing two changes a day at the peek of the levels.

Do not add any chemicals to the tank except a good de chlor product to treat the fresh water your adding to the tank. . The only chem I used was bio-coat with I applied to the buckets of fresh water before I added the new water to the tank. Some water treatment products also remove ammonia which can effect your cycle time. Only use water treatment products that remove chlorine and chloramines. Let the fresh buckets sit a few hours to equalize the water temperature.

Vacuum the gravel every two to three days. Make sure you pay attention to the corners, under any decorations or fake plants and edges of the tanks. Most of the nasties in my tank were buried in mass in the corners and around/under the plants. This will help control the ammonia in the water. I found that if the gravel was stirred up a bit during a water change and it was dirty the ammonia levels would rise even though I just changed the water. Goldies are huge mess producers. I've read conflicting opinions on the merits of vacuuming gravel. It didn't effect my cycle time. It took 3 1/2 weeks to complete with vacuuming.

Only clean the inside glass on the side(s) that you view the tank from. I only cleaned the front and right side. I left the back and left side alone which had a slimy film on it.

It takes time. Don't panic. It will finish!
 
Hi everyone,

Went to the big annual sale yesterday at the lfs. Met with a representative with Hagen and people with the store. I expressed my tank was new, and went step by step with them on what I did this past week.

This is where is gets very confusing for me. I tried doing the water changes everyday to no avail. Hagen rep and lfs employee told me to stop changing water: They said I am prolonging the ammonia spike, because with every water change, I am not allowing for new bacteria to take hold and flourish...most likely I over-vacuumed and decimated the bacteria. They both told me to ride it out, that this amonia spike can last upto a week before the levels come down. Only replace water that has evaped (hope you can appreciate my quandry...they told me to stop changing water, where the consensus on AA is to keep changing it).

Not sure if my test is bad. It hasn't been contaminated and stored with care with all the other tests.

Both said ammo-lock was a waste of money at this point, and like many of you said...don't change the filter, cut back on the feeding, but no more cleaning for a bit.

The good news is that my water is crystal clear again, no more cloud....no smell...no oily substance on top. Also the fish are very active..swimming normally, eating voraciously even though I'm only feeding them once a day now.

The bad news: didn't buy any fish yesterday for obvious reasons and I was very envious of the goodies people were getting yesterday.

I did another ammo test this morning, and maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but even though the reading was still above 4, it seemed to take slightly longer than the last few days...maybe the spike is slowing down?
 
Well, I'm still a newbie myself, but everything I've heard indicates that the bacteria that will help your ammonia and nitrite problems live on surfaces and in the gravel, filter, etc...they aren't floating in huge quantities in the water.

If you were to just put your siphon in deep enough and only take out water, leaving the gravel alone, I can't see how that would stop the bacteria from flourishing! I would wait for someone with more experience to post, but I can't see how changing just the water would hurt your cycle?

Paul
 
Still no luck.

Yesterday morning my levels still read (they haven't budged for 5 days now other than Gh which I attribute to all the RO I was adding):
Ammonia 4.0-8.0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 5.0ppm
Ph 7.7
Gh 9

Didn't feed last night or this morning, and they are scouring the bottom for food.

Ugh...I am so frustrated :cry:
 
Hey jaysono, is there a possibility of trading your biowheel (or one of them) with a biowheel from an established tank from someone else or a pet store? That is what I did and my cycle happened very quickly. If you get a biowheel from a heavily stocked tank at a LFS, it might suck your ammonia levels down quick...

Also, ammonia readings that high for a week and the fish don't seem to be bothered? No signs of stress or dead fish? Have you had your water tested by a LFS or with another test kit? Maybe your readings are accurate, but I might consider a 'second opinion' at this point. My LFS doesn't charge anything to test water once in a while, might be worth checking out at yours.

Paul
 
Did the Hagen rep mention the irreparable damage to a fishes breathing system that will be done if they are in constantly high readings and survive....?

Being a rep does not make him fish saavy..no more than the Giant rep here could advise me on my Rolf wheels and what the highest impact pressure they can take (how long a drop can I jump before they become metal tacos?)

Your lfs is thinking the cycle..but what about the fish? (plus deep down he knows if these don't make it, you'll come for more. It may cloud his judgement) My lfs is not the frequent changer, but he is quick to change if anything suspicious comes up.
 
Perhaps a good sign?

Well following my regime of doing two smaller water changes during the day may have finally helped.

The last two days I had went home for lunch and exchanged approx 1.5 gal of water. I would then repeat the process later in the evening when I would return home, about 6pm or so.

So the last 2 days I've been able to do about 25% water change a day spread out over twice a day.

I have also not fed my critters for approx 30 hours.

Well, this morning's ritual chemistry routine provided some possible encouraging results. My Ammonia, at the very least is back in the measurable state. Where as the last 5 days seems to have been pegging it somewhere between 4.0 & 8.0, this morning it was closer to the 2.0 color band as opposed to the 4.0. So I'm finally around 2-4ppm on ammonia.

I did feed very sparingly this morning and gave my wife instruction on not to feed tonight and to also do another partial water change when she gets home....I'm leaving for Sacramento in a few hours for business trip and I won't be back until late tomorrow evening. So I probably can't do another test until Saturday morning.

Nitrite = 0.25
Nitrate = 5.0
 
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