enrgizerbunny
Aquarium Advice Addict
On the bright side, you will never have to go through this again. Cycled with established media is too easy.
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Vacuuming out BB??
- Thread starter sam180
- Start date
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On the bright side, you will never have to go through this again. Cycled with established media is too easy.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
Update: 7 weeks now and still no nitrites...ammo is approx 1ppm, still dosing Prime and waiting.
Worth keeping an eye on nitrates. I've seen some threads where the nitrite never comes in (although it must) but nitrates start increasing.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
Checked them yesterday. Right at 5.0 ppm
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Sounds like my tap water 
Always has a hint of nitrates.
Always has a hint of nitrates.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
Yeah pretty much. Ammo still around 1.0ppm after pwc. Still zero nitrites.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
So 8 weeks now and still no nitrites, and I am now kicking myself for screwing up. I've been dosing with Prime and testing ammonia with the API test kit and am now finding out that Prime can and will totally skew the test and show ridiculous high levels. And before finding that out, I was in turn using even more Prime to make sure the water was safe.
Had I given more merit to my little Seachem ammonia color wheel in the tank that still shows safe levels, I would probably have been done cycling by now. I've been doing too many pwc's and starving the BB before it could even begin to establish. That all being said, I will now be stepping way back on my water changes and probably reducing to once a week at the most, and even then only changing out 15-20% instead of 30-50%. Talk about frustrating...I've been wondering how I've been showing a 1 to 2ppm ammonia for the past month and no BB to show for it. The reality was that it was actually next to zero and I kept hampering it further with more pwc's. Grrrrr....live and learn, I guess.
Now it's time to get this cycle started...finally!
Had I given more merit to my little Seachem ammonia color wheel in the tank that still shows safe levels, I would probably have been done cycling by now. I've been doing too many pwc's and starving the BB before it could even begin to establish. That all being said, I will now be stepping way back on my water changes and probably reducing to once a week at the most, and even then only changing out 15-20% instead of 30-50%. Talk about frustrating...I've been wondering how I've been showing a 1 to 2ppm ammonia for the past month and no BB to show for it. The reality was that it was actually next to zero and I kept hampering it further with more pwc's. Grrrrr....live and learn, I guess.
Now it's time to get this cycle started...finally!
Fishperson
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well that stinks!
The good news is that by now you actually will have some BB in there. In fact, they don't need a continual or large supply to eat, and can live for a month, so you do have some in there right now. One thing you should consider is that maybe you should get some API Stress Coat? Because if prime skews your ammonia results then you are blind to ammonia right now. It is a good thing to have because it helps prevent fish from being stressed (supposedly) when they are first added to the tank or during other times and supposedly can repair the slime coat on damaged fish. You might want that while you are cycling so you can get a good ammonia reading, unless you feel confident with your ammonia wheel?
Ah lost? I've never heard of prime skewing the test and wondering what these conditions might be out of interest where 1 or 2 ppm reads as 0. Not at a ph of 7 to 8. Just curious on what you are seeing.
All I had read was that it will slow down the bb as the unsafe ammonia is converted to ammonium for 24 to 48hrs. I'd also seen a few posts where prime prevented cycling but not many.
All I had read was that it will slow down the bb as the unsafe ammonia is converted to ammonium for 24 to 48hrs. I'd also seen a few posts where prime prevented cycling but not many.
Fishperson
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well I heard that bacteria can still consume ammonium so that shouldn't be a problem. I heard that prime does not skew API tests but that it will skew Red Sea and other tests.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
Here is a link directly from Seachem's site regarding their Prime product:
Seachem. Prime FAQ
Seachem specifically states that their Prime (and products like it) will give false positives to any Nessler based ammonia test kit (API's kit..). Seachem's own color wheel as well as their own ammonia test kit are unaffected by dechlorinators like Prime and will give accurate readings of both free ammonia and ammonium separately.
As for API Stresscoat+, that's what I have been using since day one as my main dechlorinator as it was recommended to me from my LFS. I still have some left, but I was making the transition to Prime as I used the Stresscoat up. According to some other posts and reviews I've read, other dechlorinators can also skew ammonia readings from the Nessler based kits. So from what I've gathered, the only way API's ammonia test will read true and accurate is when used at least 48 hours AFTER you last put Prime or any dechlorinator in the tank.
I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger issue for people and wider spread knowledge. I thought I had done a lot of research when diving into this hobby, but apparently I missed this one glaring issue somehow until now. I've used up over 75% of my bottle of Prime over the past month or so all the while thinking I had a ton of ammonia.
Thankfully, the API kit will still give accurate readings for pH, nitrites and nitrates. So from here on out, I will be relying on the Seachem color wheel and testing daily for nitrites while continuing to dose with Prime. I will also be doing much smaller and less frequent water changes. I'll let you guys know what happens.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
It does not cause ammonia to read as 0ppm, quite the opposite. It causes false positives. So when your ammonia is low or near zero, Prime will cause the API test kit to read much, much higher than it truly is.
Seachem also states in the FAQ I linked above that Prime will not slow down or affect the cycling process. Prime also dissipates after 24 hours, not 48.
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
Regarding Prime and false positives is that since the liquid salicylate (API) type tests do not distinguish between nh3 and nh4+, even 'bound' ammonium will still register even after treated with Prime, thus giving a 'false positive'.
The API test is a liquid salicylate test, not a nessler based one.
Here's a quote from a Seachem rep on their forum
Link to full thread
Prime and "False Positive" Ammonia Readings - Seachem Support Forums
The API test is a liquid salicylate test, not a nessler based one.
Here's a quote from a Seachem rep on their forum
Tech Support DG said:
Link to full thread
Prime and "False Positive" Ammonia Readings - Seachem Support Forums
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
Well then I stand corrected. I had read some posts about API's kit being Nessler based...evidently they were wrong. How then is it possible for me to have had an ammonia reading of 1ppm or greater for the past 5+ weeks and no bacteria/nitrites to show for it? If Prime converting it all to ammonium is to blame, then Seachem is essentially lying on their FAQ that it doesn't affect the cycle process..
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
Well there's a few possibilities. The first one is pH. If you have soft water then it's a good possibility that the pH isn't high enough or stable enough to maintain a colony. Faulty test kit- This one can be checked against a known good water source, but it does happen from time to time. And finally, there's a very small possibility that there's something in the tank preventing the bacteria from growing. I would imagine that something that harsh would play out on fish as well, but who knows.
Sometimes it can take 6-8 weeks for a cycle to really get moving, especially with a lot of frequent water changes but typically you should see something happening by now.
Sometimes it can take 6-8 weeks for a cycle to really get moving, especially with a lot of frequent water changes but typically you should see something happening by now.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
pH is roughly 7.6 - checked with both the normal and high range API testers. I don't have a method to measure the hardness of the water. Can you recommend a good tester? And if it turns out the water is too soft, what can I do about it? I added my first school of fish (6 skirt tetras) literally 8 weeks ago today and now have 28 total fish that are happy and healthy. No signs of anything bad in the water for them but can't speak for the bacteria living conditions, unfortunately. I'm really at a loss at this point.
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
If your ph is hanging at 7.6 then you are good to go as far as hardness goes.
You tested your ammonia test kit against a known clean water source?
You are getting 0 nitrates? What kind of biomedia? Any live plants in the tank? Sorry if you went over this already I just don't want to skim.
You tested your ammonia test kit against a known clean water source?
You are getting 0 nitrates? What kind of biomedia? Any live plants in the tank? Sorry if you went over this already I just don't want to skim.
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sam180
Aquarium Advice Activist
I tested both pH ranges again and it's actually about 7.5. The high range bottoms out close to the 7.4 and the normal pH test tops out at 7.6. That's how it's been since day one with both my tap water and tank water. My nitrates have been roughly 2.5 to 5.0 since day one, which are inherent in my tap water. I added a few small live plants about a month ago - an Amazon Sword (about 6 to 7" tall) and 5 small Wisterias. I am running two Fluval 406 canisters with BioMax, BioFoam, Purigen and water polishing pads. It came with carbon, which I ran for the first 4 weeks and then swapped it out for Purigen and more BioMax. Temp has been 82° to 84° since day one of fish.
