Wanted: Participants for fishless cycling study

[Mebbid]

Too many variables with gravel.. I would say no

 

[ashleynicole]

To really make this a true scientific study you would need to have all the same size container with exactly the same filter on each container (turning over the same gph and carrying the same media) and the same temperatures in each container. These would be control values. Then with each type of cycle method you would need to have about 3 containers set to follow those exact cycling parameters. Without these controls there are too many variables and you really wont come up with any usable conclusive data.
Also since bacteria comes from the environment you would need all the containers in the same room with the same ambient air. Otherwise theres a whole other set of variables, different climate, different strains of bacteria, etc.


P.S. I was a science fair nerd and made it to the international level when I was in high school (2002).

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[threnjen]

Yeah I didn't expect it can be truly scientific, as much as I wish it were. I don't expect to come out of this being able to make any large blanket assertions or write an actual paper with valid conclusions.
It's mostly for fun and observing other people's experiences when they try different cycling methods. We're so set on how we do things, and maybe they can be done differently.

I think it still helps for us to align our parameters as much is possible and reasonable to eliminate as many variables as possible, although I agree with ashleynicole that not all variables can be eliminated

 

[Scottyhorse]

Thank you so much melosu and team.

We have 4 people signed up which is enough if I run some tests also, but hoping for 2 more.

Is everyone so far ready? We can divide up dosing plans starting right away, if so. Although give me maybe a day to agree on the 3 plans with Caliban.

Does anyone have any requests for what you get assigned? Basically some of the assignments may be slower than others. But maybe not. Kind of what we are hoping to find out, right? But if anyone is in a hurry like they need it for fish we can *try* to give you the fastest method.

I agree that at very minimum we need to homogenize the tank temperature.
Also Caliban and I have read (and this is even in the fishless cycle thread) that they grow better in the dark. So if everyone is able to do the experiment with no light, then we should.

I'm ok with a short or fast method. I can also run heated/unheated. I can do in the dark or in the light. Whatever you want me to do.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Just got make sure scotty has her ammo and I am picking up another heater in the morning.

Still isn't here yet, but should be soon, I would think.

 

[FrightyDog]

I could sign up! I have an empty 5 gallon waiting to be cycled for my bettas. I have a marina i25 internal filter for up to 6.6 gallons. No heater, no substrate. I plan to get the ammonia very soon. Possibly tomorrow.
In other words, will I need those missing items before i participate?

 

[threnjen]

I could sign up! I have an empty 5 gallon waiting to be cycled for my bettas. I have a marina i25 internal filter for up to 6.6 gallons. No heater, no substrate. I plan to get the ammonia very soon. Possibly tomorrow.
In other words, will I need those missing items before i participate?

A heater - but your betta will want one anyway And the ammonia.
I don't think there's a rush, though. I don't think we all have to start on the same day anyway.

 

[FrightyDog]

I planned on getting all those for my betta anyways I have been meaning to cycle but I procrastinate haha. But ok then I will participate

 

[Mebbid]

To really make this a true scientific study you would need to have all the same size container with exactly the same filter on each container (turning over the same gph and carrying the same media) and the same temperatures in each container. These would be control values. Then with each type of cycle method you would need to have about 3 containers set to follow those exact cycling parameters. Without these controls there are too many variables and you really wont come up with any usable conclusive data.
Also since bacteria comes from the environment you would need all the containers in the same room with the same ambient air. Otherwise theres a whole other set of variables, different climate, different strains of bacteria, etc.

P.S. I was a science fair nerd and made it to the international level when I was in high school (2002).

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I don't see this as being a true scientific test. I loon at this as more of a testing on cycling methods. The fact that no two people have the same experience with fishless cycling is enough reason to do this. It should give a good base line but nothing hyper conclusive.

 

[Caliban07]

I don't think we should have any substrate. Unless we used the exact same make, type and weight which is difficult to control. For that reason I would say its best to use no substrate. I personally would also be inclined to use the same size and shape tank or bucket, same media etc. Surface area may be important. What if nitrification in one tank peaks when maximum surface area colonisation is achieved but a larger containers efficiency continues to grow? That's my thought anyway.

 

[Mebbid]

I just had a thought while I was buying filter media for a tank.. Since we aquire nitrifying bacteria from the air wouldn't it make sense for there to be a higher concentration of the bacteria in houses with running aquariums?

 

[threnjen]

Is it possible to run the test in a different room at least?

Ultimately we must accept that it won't be very scientific But like you said we'll at minimum be studying different cycling methods.

 

[threnjen]

OK. Anyone still on board?

If so, we want to get started.

Throughout our research we've come across enough information and we want to try cycling a little differently than we're all used to - but not TOO differently.

Here are parameters:

30 Celsius (86F)
Dark, if possible (obviously not if you have plants)
HOB filter if you have it available, but MOST important that the filter be appropriately sized for the tank


For dosing we've decided on 2ppm and no water changes. That is an important element of the experiment that we want to study. Generally I think water changes slow things down, but are also part of replenishing trace nutrients. If we reduce the load we should be able to avoid using up all the nutrients.

If you're ready to get started:

Fill up (dechlor!)
Set temp
Dose to 2ppm ammonia
Add a smidge of fish flake
Check pH: maintain above 7.0 (add baking soda if needed)


Chime in if you're going to participate!

Your instructions:
Maintain the 2ppm dose, but no more than once per 24 hours.
Maintain 7.0pH or higher
Maintain temperature at 30C

I'm going to set up a public Google doc that everyone should be able to access to enter your daily test results. For best results for our study, please do test every day. But if you miss a few days, don't drop out Just jump back in when you can.

Instructions still to follow on what to dose when you see nitrItes. Dosing instructions may change from the 2ppm at that point (or they may not). But we are at least ready to get started.

I will be running the same experiment as everyone else, except I have three equal buckets and in 2 of them I will be using distilled water. We're trying to see the effect that the water source has on the cycle.

IF you happen to have the tests - please report on your water's gH and kH
If possible link your city's water quality report (or tell me your city/country and I will look it up)

Let's have fun and gather data!

Also, additional participants are welcome!

 

[MJSerik]

Can't participate but am very interested, can't wait to see results!

 

[xsryman]

I have had ammo in my tank since friday but it was too high (like off the chart green). I have been doing water changes to get my ammo down to 2ppm and just achieved that yesterday. Is it too late for me to jump in here?

 

[threnjen]

Yes please do!!

I'm not sure who from the original group is participating, I didn't get any follow ups. Did everyone get too tired of waiting (I totally understand, we just could not decide on parameters)

 

[Scottyhorse]

I never received the Ammonia, and I had to use my last filter for an emergency tank set up, so I guess I will have to pull out!

 

[xsryman]

Yes please do!!

I'm not sure who from the original group is participating, I didn't get any follow ups. Did everyone get too tired of waiting (I totally understand, we just could not decide on parameters)

I have tank parameters from yesterday. I am checking them after work each day. Where i post this information at?

 

[Fishfur]

I could probably do this. I have tanks, filters, a heater I never use, a room without much light, time..etc. Was there any consensus on what sort of media to use in the filters ?

 

[threnjen]

Hooray!
Give me your test results here for now. It seemed like people had lost interest so I had not gotten around to make the google doc.