warning- rant- read at your own risk

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ocean said:
What happened to being tolerant and repectful of your peers....no matter what their age is? I'm not going to add fuel to the fire but everyone needs to lighten up!! I happen to like AA and it's been very helpful, but now having seconds thought about it.
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Don't take this thread too serious, the creator gave it this title for a reason. At the end of the day moat people always try to help and do their best to be supportive.

It's still true though that some people that ask for advice don't want to hear the answers but that's life I guess ;)
 
To be fair , I did post 'warning rant' as the title of this thread. So anyone who is offended, realize it was a vent, and if you don't agree with the opinions expressed here, then you have that right.

As for life emergencies, of course our families come first and we have to do the best we can in tough financial situations. I am talking about people who don't have the funds to begin with to invest in this hobby.

Most of the members on this site provide information and advice in a very polite and respectful way. It is when people refuse to listen to the same opinion from several experienced people on the board that I begin to wonder why they would even bother to ask for advice if they aren't going to listen to 10 people telling them the same thing.

And as far as grammar and punctuation are concerned. I was not talking about those with English as a second language or normal typos and mispelled words. I am talking about shortening you to 'u' and purposefully mispelling things like - "wut shud I du, al my fish r ded,"

I understand that there are younger people here as well. Again, I feel the parents are responsible. My kids assist in the care of all of our animals, however i am ultimately responsible. For those kids, it would be just like the parents that get their kids a dog or puppy and dont get it shot or take it to the vet. I grew up dirt poor and was given kitten after kitten just to watch them run away or die. I went to college and now my kids have pets they can bond with and learn to care for properly.

The people here on this board offer excellent advice. I made all the classic newbie mistakes, but I listened to the people here instead of getting upset , I followed their advice and it has paid off.
 
ashleynicole said:
"wut shud I du, al my fish r ded,"
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I do realize that that sentence is not funny, context-wise, but I have to admit, I spit up on my computer laughing at how you typed it. Does that make me a bad person? :oops:

That's exactly what I mean by spelling and grammer, too. Basically, text speak gets my hackles up. Language is a beautiful thing and we should feel blessed to be able to use it to express ourselves. Save your texting for just that, texting.
 
I agree with pretty much all of the statements here. The grammar thing has always bugged me, and the spelling thing is a problem in some areas, although I fat finger more than a few words. Spell check is helpful to a point but it corrects in American not English. The future of the hobby is in the youth, and the fact is the youth of today seem terrible at spelling. I know more than a few university grads whose spelling is atrocious. As mentioned for many, English is a second language for many who post on forums that those of us who speak English frequent. Kudos to those people for being able to read and write more than one language. I will admit that on more than one occasion I have stopped reading a post because of the way it was written. These instances were clearly not from someone whose native tongue wasn't English. However, it is important to exercise tolerance and civility to keep the forum functioning as it is intended to.
To that end, we need to make sure we express opinions as such and not as fact. Facts need to be defended. There are a lot of myths in the hobby that are still floating around after the 50 years I have been in the hobby. These need to be challenged whenever they appear, as once read, they are repeated as fact.
The other thing that bothers me is the cavalier attitude some people have regarding other people's money. This hobby can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. There are almost always cheaper ways to do something to keep costs down. For many of the really young members, cost is a big issue, and we should keep that in mind when making recommendations. Personally, I think it would be a shame to lose a young hobbyist because of money.
 
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LyndaB said:
I do realize that that sentence is not funny, context-wise, but I have to admit, I spit up on my computer laughing at how you typed it. Does that make me a bad person? :oops:

That's exactly what I mean by spelling and grammer, too. Basically, text speak gets my hackles up. Language is a beautiful thing and we should feel blessed to be able to use it to express ourselves. Save your texting for just that, texting.
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Exactly! There's the people who don't know English well and do their best, but when you start typing like "Wat R my fsh doin there nt lokin good????" then that's completely different.

As far as kids and their parents/money, I still depend on my parents to buy my fish supplies cause no one wants to hire me :( LOL. I stay with tanks, fish, and setups I know I can afford and won't go over budget though.

My own rant, the ones who buy fish who don't belong in small aquariums and come up with the excuse that they're going to upgrade to a much larger tank later when they can't keep the current tank running correctly.
Also the ones who receive the correct information but still go against it and look for one person to say it might be fine and justify their choice off of that.
 
I agree with the grammar/spelling issue. Errors are one thing, but total lack of effort is another. I do understand that some people are using their cell phones to post, but still, the shortcuts normally only amount to 5 or so letters. So maybe an extra 5 seconds at most?

The lack of grammar/spelling usually goes along with an inability to use the search function and a refusal to use Google as well.

While I'm in a rant thread....

"Where did my fish go?"

Really? I don't see how anyone can help out in cases of missing fish. Maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

I guess I could post when I lose my car keys as well. Perhaps some members are psychic.
 
BillD said:
I agree with pretty much all of the statements here. The grammar thing has always bugged me, and the spelling thing is a problem in some areas, although I fat finger more than a few words. Spell check is helpful to a point but it corrects in American not English. The future of the hobby is in the youth, and the fact is the youth of today seem terrible at spelling. I know more than a few university grads whose spelling is atrocious. As mentioned for many, English is a second language for many who post on forums that those of us who speak English frequent. Kudos to those people for being able to read and write more than one language. I will admit that on more than one occasion I have stopped reading a post because of the way it was written. These instances were clearly not from someone whose native tongue wasn't English. However, it is important to exercise tolerance and civility to keep the forum functioning as it is intended to.
To that end, we need to make sure we express opinions as such and not as fact. Facts need to be defended. There are a lot of myths in the hobby that are still floating around after the 50 years I have been in the hobby. These need to be challenged whenever they appear, as once read, they are repeated as fact.
The other thing that bothers me is the cavalier attitude some people have regarding other people's money. This hobby can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. There are almost always cheaper ways to do something to keep costs down. For many of the really young members, cost is a big issue, and we should keep that in mind when making recommendations. Personally, I think it would be a shame to lose a young hobbyist because of money.
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Very well said. I just bought a 50lb bag of pool filter sand for $5 bucks as opposed to the prices of aquarium sand at the pet store being $20 a bag. There are always more cost effective avenues. But a good test kit is a necessity for the health and livelehood of any tank.
when I first posted this I was rather blunt. I am a nurse and I both work with and take care of people from all backgrounds. I feel the same frustrations when trying to educate patients and families about a healthy lifestyle. We cant make anyone do anything, all we can do is offer good information with solid facts and research to back it up. The rest is up to the individual.
 
@ Ashleynicole - Posting **warning - rant - read at your own risk** certainly is attention getting. Most people WILL read and state their opinion. OR if really offended, leave the site. Not in response to my own threads realy, but I have seen some things on here that have made my mouth hang open. I am actually stunned at how disrespectful people are to others who have asked a question and requested help. Then they ask follow up questions and no one replies after giving them a little smack...

I would suggest that everyone consider that maybe you are talking to a friend or family member and realize that everyone on here has feelings and sensitivities that are their own. Regardless of how they type or what questions they ask, or their reasons - I believe that they ARE doing their best with what they have.

BTW - RE: Test kits, you CAN get a test kit online for around $22.00 including shipping. Far cheaper than the big boxes.

IF you have a credit card!

Amazon.com: Used and New: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals 34 Fresh Water Aquarium Master Test Kit for Testing High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate Levels

However this is another thing I never knew I needed until I read it in this forum.

People come here because they are interested. Please be patient and understanding. If you cannot help for any reason (personal choices including) then don't - someone else will.

Janelle
 
jmpgop said:
@ Ashleynicole - Posting **warning - rant - read at your own risk** certainly is attention getting. Most people WILL read and state their opinion. OR if really offended, leave the site. Not in response to my own threads realy, but I have seen some things on here that have made my mouth hang open. I am actually stunned at how disrespectful people are to others who have asked a question and requested help. Then they ask follow up questions and no one replies after giving them a little smack...

I would suggest that everyone consider that maybe you are talking to a friend or family member and realize that everyone on here has feelings and sensitivities that are their own. Regardless of how they type or what questions they ask, or their reasons - I believe that they ARE doing their best with what they have.

BTW - RE: Test kits, you CAN get a test kit online for around $22.00 including shipping. Far cheaper than the big boxes.

IF you have a credit card!

Amazon.com: Used and New: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals 34 Fresh Water Aquarium Master Test Kit for Testing High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate Levels

However this is another thing I never knew I needed until I read it in this forum.

People come here because they are interested. Please be patient and understanding. If you cannot help for any reason (personal choices including) then don't - someone else will.

Janelle
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I like this post very much so
 
While I agree with spelling, I would like to point out that some people (myself included) use the smartphone apps and have dubious spellchecks at best.

I really don't think this should have been moved to the lounge <.< Needs to be front and center where people can see it. Other than the spelling tangent, I though it was pretty relevant.
 
jmpgop said:
@ Ashleynicole - Posting **warning - rant - read at your own risk** certainly is attention getting. Most people WILL read and state their opinion. OR if really offended, leave the site. Not in response to my own threads realy, but I have seen some things on here that have made my mouth hang open. I am actually stunned at how disrespectful people are to others who have asked a question and requested help. Then they ask follow up questions and no one replies after giving them a little smack...

I would suggest that everyone consider that maybe you are talking to a friend or family member and realize that everyone on here has feelings and sensitivities that are their own. Regardless of how they type or what questions they ask, or their reasons - I believe that they ARE doing their best with what they have.

BTW - RE: Test kits, you CAN get a test kit online for around $22.00 including shipping. Far cheaper than the big boxes.

IF you have a credit card!

Amazon.com: Used and New: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals 34 Fresh Water Aquarium Master Test Kit for Testing High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate Levels

However this is another thing I never knew I needed until I read it in this forum.

People come here because they are interested. Please be patient and understanding. If you cannot help for any reason (personal choices including) then don't - someone else will.

Janelle
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Again you did not really pay attenton to what i said. I did make a lot of the same mistakes and have learned a great deal because I am receptive and open to the advice of others. I am talking about people that ask for advice and then get upset and defensive when they are given solid answers.
 
It's always annoying when someone asks for your advice and then completely ignores it. Or worse, goes on asking other people, hoping to get the answer they want instead of the truth.
But we can only do our best to give correct and helpful information. We can't force people to fallow that advice.
When I offer advice and it's blatantly ignored or argued about, I leave that thread. Life is far to short to spend it arguing via the computer. I get my fill of arguing at home, I don't need it here too.
I do understand about those ridiculous phone apps that guess at what your trying to say and all you get is nonsense, but try to read your post prior to sending them. And if you happen to miss a typo or two, there is always the little "edit" button at the bottom of the post.
When I have read a post that I missed a typo or forgot to add a word, personally I'm embarrassed. It's best to try and make sense when posting.
But I have to completely agree that text speak on a forum makes me nuts too. This isn't texting, so please use real words.
 
WendiDell said:
I do understand about those ridiculous phone apps that guess at what your trying to say and all you get is nonsense, but try to read your post prior to sending them. And if you happen to miss a typo or two, there is always the little "edit" button at the bottom of the post.
Click to expand...

I think a reasonable effort is all we're asking for.
 
Katie, I'm pretty sure we got reamed at the beginning, too. We were ordering just about everything from one supplier, then discovered kensfish.com. Now, we order at a lower price, it's shipped the same day the order is placed, and the guy has tremendous customer service.

Back to topic, sorry guys..... :oops:
 
A (not very brief) response...and a rant of my own :D

Believe me when I say I also feel frustration...but I force myself to take a step back and remember that people have made the effort to join this website and ask for help (whether they choose to follow it or not). It is very easy to be steered wrong by pet stores, simply because logic tells us that if that is their job...they must know what they're talking about. To take the extra step of joining a site for additional confirmation or questions is something to be commended for.

I feel more frustration with existing members who have no clue of what the answer is to a question...yet feel like they have to provide some sort of input (occasionally to the detriment of the fish they are supposedly helping). I don't know if this is to increase post counts (which mean nothing), or perhaps some of it is being good natured and trying to help...but causing more harm than good with their limited knowledge.

I've seen examples ranging everywhere from people advising that a pH of 7.6 is too high and they need to bring it down...all the way to advising a fish should be euthanized when the issue is obviously a simple case of constipation when an experienced member gets to the thread. If you don't know how to help...don't just blindly advise an OP on steps to take. It's okay if you don't know.

I totally agree with the financial aspect. Would you buy a dog if you couldn't afford dog food? I see people in the classifieds section asking for free tanks, filters, water conditioner, decorations, etc...because they can't afford it. My question is...what if your impeller breaks? What if you need medications? If something goes wrong do you just say "Oh well, I can't afford it, I guess I'll just have to watch them die."? I cant tell you how many times I've had to make an emergency dash to the lfs and drop $100+ for some unexpected reason. Yeah, if thats not something you're capable of...I do believe you have no business owning a pet who solely depends on you for its survival. It's sad that people don't view fish with the same respect for life as other pets...but unfortunately that's the word we live in. All we can do as experienced hobbyists is try to make a dent in the belief, and help the people who are willing to accept our input.

As for spelling / grammar. Agreed. if you don't make an effort to present yourself well...people will not take you seriously, members will not understand you, others may be less willing to help...and it simply makes you look like you don't have any class. This is a forum of helpful people doing our best to assist you with your concerns...try and show us respect by taking an extra few seconds to type entire words out.

Also, this is not a social network. We're not on Facebook, Twitter, etc... If you're posting in the help forums...please ask questions or provide advice. Threads about "My friend has Guppies...they're so cute!" really have no place in any area other than the Lounge.

Also, starting 4 threads on the exact same topic because you're not getting answers fast enough is not acceptable IMO. Chances are the same members will see the question regardless of it's place...and dividing information over several threads will lead to confusion and most likely less efficient advice.

Lastly...we have a search feature and stickys...please try to use them when you can. If you believe you have a common question...I guarantee it's been addressed a million times. Fish have Ich? There's a great sticky here. Cycling questions? Several stickys covering every aspect.

When the last hurricane was about to hit the east coast...it seemed every 10 minutes there was a new thread called "What do I do if power goes out?" Taking an extra 20 seconds to search would have provided tons of info...as well as preventing clutter on the site. There's also a thing on the Internet called Google.

In short...this site is full of fantastic members and information...we just ask that you help us help you :).
 
Wow. This was an interesting read.
I undertand what everybody is saying. I am going to say that I get the most frustrated when people ASK for input, receive it in a nice, tactful manner (which doesn't always happen, but I think it usually does) and then get mad at everybody for "critisizing" them. If you put up a picture of a tank you KNOW is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overstocked, don't expect us all to celebrate it with you. If you don't know, thats a different thing.
Grammar does not bother me. Nor does the spelling. I appreciate it when I can read the posts, but I can almost alwasy figure it out. But yes, punctuation helps a lot. Still I have friends who have various learning disablities and such that prevent them from writing coherently. And, not everybody speaks English as a first language. I personally do not have a problem taking the extra time to read the post, decipher it, and try to help. My sister is a journalist, she couldn't do it. I am a scientist, I don't mind. But, thats just me.
@Lynda, I know what you mean about us all getting reamed in the beginning. Lol, I didn't trust getting fish online, so I was getting everything from this crazy over-priced lfs.
@eco, I would be annoyed too if I saw an ad that actually said, please give us a tank because we can't afford one. But, I peruse the classifieds to find free tanks. It doesn't mean I can't afford to keep fish, but I would like to save money if I could. Plenty of people have tanks and equipment in their garages that they don't use, so I see no harm in somebody else asking. And yes, many thousands of people get dogs who can't afford dogs. People also have children who can't afford children. I don't necessarily think people treat fish as differently as we sometimes think they do.
I agree about the stickies. Those articles are concise and well-written and excellent resources.
 
:agree:
I agree with both the original rant, and the secondary. It is important to realize that I don't think either member is talking in absolutes here. Just a reasonable expectation of communication etiquette.

For those who take offense, and others concerned that this offense will lead to members moving off the forum, I would like to propose that NOT recognizing that these issues are frustrating ARE causing people not to join, or to leave as well. I know I have stopped from posting in certain threads simply because I don't like having to figure out what words the poster means while abbreviating (or should I say butchering) the language, or trying to telepathically discern where their punctuation should have been to make sense of the sentence.

Responsibility is like aspirin, those who take it have less headaches.

Being a part/member of an open forum brings with it the responsibility to treat communication with respect. It is hard enough to attribute tone and emotion to posts without trying to figure out what is being said.

No one is complaining about posters who are not native to the English language, or have cultural differences, or financial challenges. However, it is simply the responsible thing to do to try to identify your situation and deal with it as best you can.

Are is not spelled r. You is not spelled u. None of us is saying you need to be an English major to post, just respectful of the time other members are giving to this community to be a part of it. If you don't have the time to write the extra two letters or insert punctuation, don't expect others to give you the time when you need advice/help.

Any forum is nothing more than a reflection of its membership. If small efforts to effectively communicate are above your effort level, I would suggest not becoming a member of a forum where the minimum level of effort requires written communication.

As well, I don't own a Porsche (insert any higher priced car brand here) and complain about the money needed when parts are required. I simply don't buy the Porsche. Take responsibility for your decisions and your finances. Everyone comes in and out of situations in their lives, financial, emotional, and etc. No one is telling anyone who should have fish, what kind, or how big a tank they should have. Just take responsibility for the finances that exist along with the expenditures you have undertaken. If it is too much of a financial burden for you to have a large tank with expensive fishes, or a small tank with a disease, it may be time to take on a different hobby instead of asking for others to pay for yours.

I wouldn't even mind if they would ask once and then those who decide to respond have an opportunity. It is the constant repetition of requests that get to me.

--- Hmmm --- is this a rant?
 
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