Water changes with high nitrates

[jtez]

Is it best to do a single large WC or do a few smaller ones over a few days to shock the fish less?

 

[Canary bird]

I would say large. If the temperature is roughly the same as the tank water there shouldn't be any problem, you might need yo do a few large changes , how high is your nitrate reading ?

 

[jtez]

I would say large. If the temperature is roughly the same as the tank water there shouldn't be any problem, you might need yo do a few large changes , how high is your nitrate reading ?

Temperature could do with a drop anyway, the Australian summer isn't making it easy to keep the tank under 30*C

Nitrates this afternoon were about 80, maybe slightly over. Haven't got any prime left though so I need to go to the LFS to get some more

 

[jlk]

Is 80ppm the reading in your tank or straight from the tap?

 

[jtez]

Tank, tap is 0 (thank god)

 

[jlk]

What is your normal wc schedule (%/#wk)?

 

[T1KARMANN]

It's best to do no more than 35-40% water changes in one go

It's not just the temp you need to worry about but ph gh and kh

If you do 25% at a time over 4 days that's 100% which if isn't enough then you have more of a issue than just high readings this one time and you probably need to lower stock levels

As nitrate isn't toxic and most fish can handle very high levels I never understand why people panic so much about them

 

[jlk]

It's best to do no more than 35-40% water changes in one go

It's not just the temp you need to worry about but ph gh and kh

If you do 25% at a time over 4 days that's 100% which if isn't enough then you have more of a issue than just high readings this one time and you probably need to lower stock levels

As nitrate isn't toxic and most fish can handle very high levels I never understand why people panic so much about them

Changing just 25% of the water over four days still leaves over 30% of the original water from day one prior to the first water change. Meanwhile, fish will continually produce ammonia which is thus converted to nitrate increasing the nitrate levels on a constant basis despite water changes. More information is needed from the OP to determine how the tank levels reached 80ppm such as a lack of sufficient wcs.

Perhaps you wish to keep your fish at high nitrate concentrations but this is not recommended. The short term and long term effects of nitrate exposure have been scientifically well documented. These include, but are not limited to, impaired fertility, hematological dysfunction, immune suppression, blindness, liver and kidney necrosis and demise.

http://www.atlantech.ca/public/articles/Water Quality.PDF

Nitrate toxicity on visceral organs of Medaka... [Biol Sci Space. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Nitrate toxicity to aquatic animals: a review wi... [Chemosphere. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[T1KARMANN]

Changing just 25% of the water over four days still leaves over 30% of the original water from day one prior to the first water change. Meanwhile, fish will continually produce ammonia which is thus converted to nitrate increasing the nitrate levels on a constant basis despite water changes. More information is needed from the OP to determine how the tank levels reached 80ppm such as a lack of sufficient wcs. Perhaps you wish to keep your fish at high nitrate concentrations but this is not recommended. The short term and long term effects of nitrate exposure have been scientifically well documented. These include, but are not limited to, impaired fertility, hematological dysfunction, immune suppression, blindness, liver and kidney necrosis and demise. http://www.atlantech.ca/public/articles/Water%20Quality.PDF Nitrate toxicity on visceral organs of Medaka... [Biol Sci Space. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI Nitrate toxicity to aquatic animals: a review wi... [Chemosphere. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

You won't lower it over night

Most people with a good stocking level can maintain good nitrate levels with just 1 x 25% water change per week

If you carry out one 25% per day over a week period you should get your nitrates back to a level when 1 x 25% per week will be enought


With a 25% per day you don't need to worry about big temp drops or big changes in ph gh or kh

Anyone who does more than 50% in one go is crazy and to give advice to do 75% is giving bad advice

If you think that the nitrate will build up so much in a 24 hour period then what would be the point in doing weekly water changes if the levels would return back after 24 hours or are you advising them to do more than 75% each week

Nitrates are a good sign as they are the last part of the cycle and show your filters are doing a good job of braking down amo and nitrie

If you want nitrates of below 5ppm that's never going to happen without RO

Any nitrate below 80ppm is ok and anything below 150ppm is nothing to panic about it just means you need to cut down on feeding stocking or do more reg water changes


On my old 350g I done 2 x 25-30% water changes per week yet still my nitrate was 125% yes my stocking was high but I had 4 x eheim pro 3 2080 and my rays bred in nitrate that high
Water changes are just to freshen up the water nothing more

 

[Sillyfishies]

You won't lower it over night

Most people with a good stocking level can maintain good nitrate levels with just 1 x 25% water change per week

If you carry out one 25% per day over a week period you should get your nitrates back to a level when 1 x 25% per week will be enought

With a 25% per day you don't need to worry about big temp drops or big changes in ph gh or kh

Anyone who does more than 50% in one go is crazy and to give advice to do 75% is giving bad advice

If you think that the nitrate will build up so much in a 24 hour period then what would be the point in doing weekly water changes if the levels would return back after 24 hours or are you advising them to do more than 75% each week

Nitrates are a good sign as they are the last part of the cycle and show your filters are doing a good job of braking down amo and nitrie

If you want nitrates of below 5ppm that's never going to happen without RO

Any nitrate below 80ppm is ok and anything below 150ppm is nothing to panic about it just means you need to cut down on feeding stocking or do more reg water changes

On my old 350g I done 2 x 25-30% water changes per week yet still my nitrate was 125% yes my stocking was high but I had 4 x eheim pro 3 2080 and my rays bred in nitrate that high
Water changes are just to freshen up the water nothing more

How will RO water change how low you can get your trates?

 

[jlk]

You won't lower it over night

Most people with a good stocking level can maintain good nitrate levels with just 1 x 25% water change per week

If you carry out one 25% per day over a week period you should get your nitrates back to a level when 1 x 25% per week will be enought


With a 25% per day you don't need to worry about big temp drops or big changes in ph gh or kh

Anyone who does more than 50% in one go is crazy and to give advice to do 75% is giving bad advice

If you think that the nitrate will build up so much in a 24 hour period then what would be the point in doing weekly water changes if the levels would return back after 24 hours or are you advising them to do more than 75% each week

Nitrates are a good sign as they are the last part of the cycle and show your filters are doing a good job of braking down amo and nitrie

If you want nitrates of below 5ppm that's never going to happen without RO

Any nitrate below 80ppm is ok and anything below 150ppm is nothing to panic about it just means you need to cut down on feeding stocking or do more reg water changes


On my old 350g I done 2 x 25-30% water changes per week yet still my nitrate was 125% yes my stocking was high but I had 4 x eheim pro 3 2080 and my rays bred in nitrate that high
Water changes are just to freshen up the water nothing more

Did I even suggest doing a wc in this thread? No, so please do not state things I did not say. Without more information, I can not advise anything yet.

Heavy filtration does not remove nitrates thus the reason for water changes. Science demonstrates the affects nitrates have on fish. If you can provide scientific research that states nitrate concentration has zero affect on fish, I will be happy to read it. Whatever occurs in your tanks is irrelevant to this discussion as it nothing more than heresay unless you can provide quantitative proof (ie, CBC, creatinine, liver panels, etc) in addition to control comparisons to back up that the fish are in fact healthy.

 

[T1KARMANN]

How will RO water change how low you can get your trates?

Most tap water has some nitrate in it even if you did 100% water change you water still has nitrate from the tap RO doesnt

 

[T1KARMANN]

Did I even suggest doing a wc in this thread? No, so please do not state things I did not say. Without more information, I can not advise anything yet. Heavy filtration does not remove nitrates thus the reason for water changes. Science demonstrates the affects nitrates have on fish. If you can provide scientific research that states nitrate concentration has zero affect on fish, I will be happy to read it. Whatever occurs in your tanks is irrelevant to this discussion as it nothing more than heresay unless you can provide quantitative proof (ie, CBC, creatinine, liver panels, etc) in addition to control comparisons to back up that the fish are in fact healthy.

Did you read my post it says nitrate is the end product of the cycle and the only way to remove it is with water changes

People always run around pulling hair out thinking they need to get nitrate super low but that's not the case
Nitrate doesn't have a big effect of fresh water fish like it has on salt water fish

 

[jlk]

Perhaps you should read some of the cited research before making assumptions in respect to freshwater fish. If you can provide scientific research that documents nitrates have zero effect on fish, I will gladly peruse it as I am sure others will as well.

 

[BillD]

You won't lower it over night

Most people with a good stocking level can maintain good nitrate levels with just 1 x 25% water change per week

If you carry out one 25% per day over a week period you should get your nitrates back to a level when 1 x 25% per week will be enought


With a 25% per day you don't need to worry about big temp drops or big changes in ph gh or kh

Anyone who does more than 50% in one go is crazy and to give advice to do 75% is giving bad advice

If you think that the nitrate will build up so much in a 24 hour period then what would be the point in doing weekly water changes if the levels would return back after 24 hours or are you advising them to do more than 75% each week

Nitrates are a good sign as they are the last part of the cycle and show your filters are doing a good job of braking down amo and nitrie

If you want nitrates of below 5ppm that's never going to happen without RO

Any nitrate below 80ppm is ok and anything below 150ppm is nothing to panic about it just means you need to cut down on feeding stocking or do more reg water changes


On my old 350g I done 2 x 25-30% water changes per week yet still my nitrate was 125% yes my stocking was high but I had 4 x eheim pro 3 2080 and my rays bred in nitrate that high
Water changes are just to freshen up the water nothing more

There is so much that is untrue here I am not sure where to begin. Lots of bad advice here and more than a few inaccurate statements.
I don't much care for bring called crazy, as I don't even bother to get the hose out to change less than 50% of the water, and 75% isn't a big change either.
Yes you can have below 5ppm of nitrates and RO has nothing to do with it.
Nitrates between 80 and 150 ppm is okay? You really shouldn't be offering any advice to anyone.
You example of your 350 says it all. Two 25% to 30% a week and still ridiculously high nitrate numbers. You would have been better served with one 50% a week, but even that would not have been enough.
Water changes are not "just to freshen up the water" they are for removing unwanted compounds, toxins and pathogens from the water.
Lastly, to say that you can get any tank so it only needs a 25% water change weekly, while still having it what it is, is ridiculous. There are many situations where a high stocking level is necessary, such as Malawi and Tropheus setups. Your advice is a recipe for disaster.
You are entitled to express an opinion, but don't present opinion as fact. Much of what you express as fact is, in fact, not true.

 

[jtez]

Interesting to see the discussion about this. I personally don't doubt nitrate has ill effects in fish, although there are people with high trates in their tap water (~50) that I've seen keep fish for many years. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there were unseen problems with the fish but they did survive.

More information:
The tank has only been cycled for about a month. I was doing 25% WCs weekly, but my grandparents stayed for a week and they used my room, so I missed a week, and I have a major exam next Monday so I've been further putting it off. It's maybe been 2.5 weeks since my last one, but I plan on getting some prime and doing one today.

How it got so high I'm surprised about. My earlier WCs I didn't test my water at the time of, but I know I probably should have. When I added fish, I had an ammonia spike and it got to about 4ppm within days. My first thoughts were that i starved the BB at the end of my cycle, as my params were 0,0, 40 when I assumed I'd finished the cycle. But a few water changes and in a couple more days it was back to 0. 2 of this fish i bought had died so there was probably extra ammonia in the water than what would normally have been.

More recently though, I'm going to put the high trates down to overfeeding. I'm only stocked with 1 neon tetra and 2 bronze cories. I only have flake food and so I've put a little more in than i probably should to try an ensure the cories are getting good. Also some of my plants are decaying, and my dirt bottom could be leaching trates.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Perhaps you should read some of the cited research before making assumptions in respect to freshwater fish. If you can provide scientific research that documents nitrates have zero effect on fish, I will gladly peruse it as I am sure others will as well.

Research papers mean nothing to me I went to the school of life I know what works and what doesn't

People can be the biggest tech fish geek but they know nothing until they have tried things themselves

I have over 30 years of messing with small to large tanks I know what works and what doesn't

I see loads of threads posted on many forums where people have stuck to the so called book and things have gone badly wrong

 

[Bichir Bro]

Research papers mean nothing to me I went to the school of life I know what works and what doesn't People can be the biggest tech fish geek but they know nothing until they have tried things themselves I have over 30 years of messing with small to large tanks I know what works and what doesn't I see loads of threads posted on many forums where people have stuck to the so called book and things have gone badly wrong

I've gone by the book and I've had no problems yet. I'm sure loads of people do make mistakes heck I made tons when first starting out but I can assure you that not EVERY case were people follow Books or actually researching has gone bad. High nitrates are toxic, there's no argument to that, unless you have more scientific facts to back up your statement.

 

[jlk]

Interesting to see the discussion about this. I personally don't doubt nitrate has ill effects in fish, although there are people with high trates in their tap water (~50) that I've seen keep fish for many years. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there were unseen problems with the fish but they did survive.

More information:
The tank has only been cycled for about a month. I was doing 25% WCs weekly, but my grandparents stayed for a week and they used my room, so I missed a week, and I have a major exam next Monday so I've been further putting it off. It's maybe been 2.5 weeks since my last one, but I plan on getting some prime and doing one today.

How it got so high I'm surprised about. My earlier WCs I didn't test my water at the time of, but I know I probably should have. When I added fish, I had an ammonia spike and it got to about 4ppm within days. My first thoughts were that i starved the BB at the end of my cycle, as my params were 0,0, 40 when I assumed I'd finished the cycle. But a few water changes and in a couple more days it was back to 0. 2 of this fish i bought had died so there was probably extra ammonia in the water than what would normally have been.

More recently though, I'm going to put the high trates down to overfeeding. I'm only stocked with 1 neon tetra and 2 bronze cories. I only have flake food and so I've put a little more in than i probably should to try an ensure the cories are getting good. Also some of my plants are decaying, and my dirt bottom could be leaching trates.

Thanks! Remove the dead plants/trim the decaying leaves, reduce feeding and get back into a regular schedule of weekly water changes and gravel vacs. I would do a 50% wc right now to drop your nitrates from 80 down to 40. A second 50% wc tomorrow will cut them down further as your tap contains zero nitrates. Once your back on a regular wc schedule and maintenance schedule, levels should stay in check without a problem as long as your not tempted to overfeed.

 

[brunettebaby4571]

I know how tempting it is so overfeed! I have two loaches in my tank and I am always worried they will eat all the food before the others so I am guilt as well lol but I agree with jlk do two nice water changes and then keep up with weekly and you should be good!