What I was told to do. Now I'm second guessing.

[MagnumVP]

I purchased my first tank (10g) from a local pet store about a month ago. Here is what I was told to do which I then followed their advice (given they were more of an expert than me and had no reason not to trust them). However I am now having reservation 5 weeks later.

Steps;

1. Take take home and fill it with tab water.
2. Add a water conditional (they sold me Prime) that chlorinates and removes any harmful chemicals.
3. Add plants and decorations.
4. Wait 24 hours
5. Add 3 fish
6. Test weekly with a set of "tester strips" they gave me that test everything but ammonia.

Everything seemed fine until week 2 when 1 fish died. The pet store person said that does happen with new tanks as the new tank is "learning to adapt to the fish and trying to balance itself out."

They gave us another fish (identical) and introduced that fish into the tank.

Again, everything seemed fine for another week when I went to test the water and the NitrItes were off the charts. Asked the pet store owner, he told me do to a 25% water change and a gravel suction to remove any excess food and debris.

About two days after that another fish died. At this point I was beginning to wonder if I was doing something that I wasn't suppose to do or perhaps I wasn't watching something that I should be watching.

In the past 2 weeks I have performed a 25%-40% water change every 3 days to make sure the NitrItes stay low. Each time I perform the water change I make sure the water is conditioned and the same temperature as the tank. Every night I come home and test the water to make sure nothing spiked while I was gone.

During those two weeks everything was ok. NitrItes were stable (still detectable), undetectable NitrAtes and no Chlorine. We decided to get two more fish, another Molly and 3 Neon tetras. That would bring the tank to 5 which for us was a good start.

Then again today my wife called and let me know that the other Molly had died.

I'm at a lose of what do it. That is the 3 or 4th fish that had died on us and as much as I love the tank and taking care of it, I don't want to keep putting fish in that don't have a chance.

I'm looking for any advice to help me out.

 

[HN1]

Welcome to AA! I applaud you for the effort you've put in so far. You and your tank will be fine as long as you can keep up the work for a few more weeks based on better advice. Then it gets easier and more enjoyable.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

Your pet shop actually gives better advice than most. Not good at all, but better than a lot.

 

[MagnumVP]

So what now?

Should I get a better tester that test the PPM and toss the testing strips.

Do I keep performing the water change every 3 days and keep testing? Is it normal for fish to just die without any signs? My wife said that she looked over and all the fish were happy and swimming with each other then looked over 10 minutes later and the Molly was belly up (literally).

Since I haven't been testing for Ammonia, how do I know if I ever had a spike to begin the cycling process? I've had it for 5 weeks already and I've never seen a NitrAte.

After the NitrItes were detected the shop owner sold me 2 Ghost Shrimp and told me, "They will help to clean the bottom gravel and help remove some of the decay."

 

[fort384]

Boy, this is a weird story, never seen anything like it before!


Just kidding... the good news is this happens all the time, and there is nothing abnormal going on here. You got some bad advice upfront, and so now the frustration is setting in.

The first mistake: Add 3 fish after 24 hours. A fish tank has to "cycle". We call it cycle because we need the nitrogen cycle to establish itself. This consists of good bacteria that break down the various forms of nitrogen to a compound that is not lethal in reasonable levels to fish.

Fish create waste. This waste is in the form of ammonia. That is how the nitrogen cycle starts. A bacteria called nitrobacter converts ammonia to nitrite. Another kind of bacteria, called nitrosomas convert nitrite to nitrate. This is what we want... well sort of. It is a lot less dangerous to fish. Unfortunately, the bacteria take time to grow in a tank. We call this "new tank syndrome". The recommended way (by most on this forum, not by petstores), is to do what we call a fishless cycle. This involves seeding the tank with a source of ammonia (rather than fish) so that the nitrobacter and later nitrosomas have time to establish themselves. Ammonia and nitrite are very poisonous to fish... levels above 0.25ppm are dangerous. Nitrates are far less dangerous, and fish can tolerate them all the way up to 20+ppm. Nitrates will always be present in a healthy tank, but we also have to remove the nitrates as well, as there is no bacteria that will break down the nitrates any further. We do this by performing regular partial water changes (weekly or so). This is not simply topping off the tank... you actually have to remove some water, and then fill it back up (using the prime to treat for chlorine).

With the fishless cycle, it takes a few weeks... but remember nothing good ever happens quickly in an aquarium... that is one of the most important things to learn for new hobbyists. Fishless cycling also results in a lot less stress and chance of killing your fish, and also is a whole heck of a lot less work.

Unfortunately since you now have fish, you are trying to keep the fish alive, while waiting for the good bacteria to get established. This means you have to keep the ammonia and nitrites down to as low a level as possible... while the tank is cycling, you will have to do daily 50%+ water changes if you want the fish to live. What are your tests showing?

Mistake #2: Your test kit doesn't test for ammonia. It is just about the most important test... you need to get an ammonia test kit. As far as water tests, you want to get liquid titration tests... not the dip strip tests. The strips are inaccurate. The API freshwater master kit is the most often recommended, has every test you NEED for your aquarium, is accurate, easy to use, and widely available at pet and aquarium stores.

Mistake 3: Neons and mollies. These are 2 VERY sensitive fish... especially when it comes to ammonia and nitrites. They aren't hard to keep in an established tank, but almost any amounts of ammonia and nitrite will kill them.

It is good you are here... you have a little bit of a tough road ahead.. but daily water changes are in order until the tank finishes cycling. It will get easier... and like I said, this same story happens over and over, so don't get discouraged.

There is 1 bit of good advice: They sold you prime. It is the only chemical you really need to ever add to a tank, and it is the best decholorinator out there... so at least you have 1 good move to build on

Welcome to the site and good luck... also post your test results and any further questions as necessary.

 

[fort384]

After the NitrItes were detected the shop owner sold me 2 Ghost Shrimp and told me, "They will help to clean the bottom gravel and help remove some of the decay."

Alright, don't listen to anything else these guys are telling you. Adding more bioload to the tank to fix a nitrite problem... riiiiiiight. Granted, 2 ghost shrimp isn't going to cause much more of a problem, but I can guarantee it will do absolutely nothing to help fix it.

 

[MagnumVP]

I'm am SO GLAD THAT FOUND THIS SITE.

I have learned more today then the past 5 weeks I have had the tank.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but I'm trying to remove the bad advice and input good ones.

- At this point should I be worrying about changing the filter? I ask this because the "store guy" told me to wash it weekly and change it monthly.
- I always feel that if I remove 50% water I'm also removing the good bacteria.
- How long should I be performing a 50% water change daily? Am I looking for a sign in the testing that will point to... "Cycle Complete... you may now enjoy your fish"

 

[fort384]

Do NOT change the filter. It is where all the good bacteria are!! About once a month or 6 weeks, you can rinse it out in the used tank water you take out from a PWC... don't rinse in tap water as the cholorine will kill the bacteria. Only change the filter media when it is falling apart.

The bacteria is in the filter, not the water.

You want to do 50%+ daily (or even more than once a day) so long as nitrite a/o ammonia is testing above 0.25 ppm.

 

[HN1]

What fort said...

 

[MagnumVP]

Thank you. I will go and get a good tester today and test the water tonight. Any recommendations on a particular tester or things that I should make sure that it test for?

As long as the nitrite a/o ammonia is above .25ppm I will change it daily. Once it falls below that level I will continue to test it and only change it when it gets above .25ppm.

 

[MagnumVP]

Thank you... Buddy Christ!!!

 

[HN1]

Thank you. I will go and get a good tester today and test the water tonight. Any recommendations on a particular tester or things that I should make sure that it test for? The API Master FW kit is pretty good. It covers ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH.

As long as the nitrite a/o ammonia is above .25ppm I will change it daily. Once it falls below that level I will continue to test it and only change it when it gets above .25ppm.

Sounds good, but once you get steady zero for ammonia and nitrite with increasing nitrate you'll need to get into a good routine. I'm a firm believer in 7-10 day 50% changes.

 

[fort384]

The API freshwater master kit is the most often recommended, has every test you NEED for your aquarium, is accurate, easy to use, and widely available at pet and aquarium stores.

once the tank is cycled and established (in a couple weeks or so) you will consistently have 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite, with some nitrates. When you get these test results, you know the tank is cycled.

 

[MagnumVP]

So I purchased the API Freshwater Master Kit. I LOVE IT!!!! It's so much more acurate that those darn test strips. Here were my results prior to the water change.

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: Between .5 - 1.0 ppm
Nitrate: 10.0 ppm

After a 50% water change

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: Between .25 ppm
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

I will perform another water change tomorrow and keep changing it until the levels are at normal levels.

Speaking of that, what are normal levels?

 

[adeebm]

Yeah, the liquid tests are great. Normal levels: Nitrates below 20-30ppm are fine. Ammonia and nitrite should be 0. By the looks of it, you're almost done with your cycle. Just keep up the water changes until your nitrites are gone. Your pH is fine too. Good job saving your fish!

--Adeeb

 

[Greenmaster]

When you add new fish you are adding more ammonia production and the system needs time to catch up. Generally when I add fish I don't add more then 1/2 the fish I have in there.
For example if I had 7 neon tetras in a smaller tank and I wanted to get to 15 (the max for the tank in question) I would put 3, wait a week then put 5 more if all levels are good.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Nothing to add... looks like everything's been brought up so far. Kudos to Fort for some awesome advice!!

 

[uh.oh...]

What kind of filter media does your filter use? if its like one of the Aqueon 10g tanks i've gotten from Petsmart it'll probably use a cartridge system. These are convenient because it includes both mechanical and chemical filtration, but they'll need to be replaced fairly often, about once every 6-8 weeks. The beneficial bacteria grows in a little blue holder for the cartridge and inside of the filter as well (not to mention all the bacteria growing in the tank). I buy a 3 pack refill box for 7.99 or so, and it lasts me a while.

Also a small note, when adding fish to an established aquarium, realize that in the early stages of the cycle your aquarium can only handle so many fish, and when adding 3-4 times the number of fish you had to begin with the bacteria can't handle all the waste. Then your aquarium can "mini-cycle" again, as beneficial bacteria start to grow again.

 

[adeebm]

What kind of filter media does your filter use? if its like one of the Aqueon 10g tanks i've gotten from Petsmart it'll probably use a cartridge system. These are convenient because it includes both mechanical and chemical filtration, but they'll need to be replaced fairly often, about once every 6-8 weeks. The beneficial bacteria grows in a little blue holder for the cartridge and inside of the filter as well (not to mention all the bacteria growing in the tank). I buy a 3 pack refill box for 7.99 or so, and it lasts me a while.

Also a small note, when adding fish to an established aquarium, realize that in the early stages of the cycle your aquarium can only handle so many fish, and when adding 3-4 times the number of fish you had to begin with the bacteria can't handle all the waste. Then your aquarium can "mini-cycle" again, as beneficial bacteria start to grow again.

IMO Cartridge style filters are a poor choice. When you replace the cartridge, you throw away all the bacteria with it. Plus the carbon isn't needed and the cartridge adds an unnecessary expense. The bio grid or whatever on aqueon filters really have very little surface are and probably are not the most effective bio filter. I would forgo carbon, and get sponge filter media or something similar, which can be periodically rinsed in old tank water and does not need to be replaced.

--Adeeb

 

[Greenmaster]

If you have room at the back of your filter these can help with filtration.
There are many types and I am not endorsing any single type... I just believe that they work well.
Bio Rings
Bio Stars

 

[uh.oh...]

IMO Cartridge style filters are a poor choice.

--Adeeb

agreed. my main tank runs a canister filter, which is by far the best way to go (but a little impractical for a small tank). The sponge idea is awesome, much better than continuing to use those cartridges.