What should I expect?

[swimwithme]

I started my 40 gallon on Sept 3rd and was wondering how long it usually takes to see nitrites show up.

I am using the API liquid test kit. My results on 9/10/11 were Ammo 4ppm and Nitrites 0ppm. I checked it again this morning and still the same.

I have added ammo when the ammo level drops lower than 4ppm since I am not seeing any nitrites.

Anything I am doing/not doing?

 

[Nubster]

You really shouldn't dose higher than around 4-5ppm ammonia. Higher can slow or completely stop your cycle.

I can take a while, several weeks or more before nitrites to show. Then another week or two for nitrates to show.

 

[eco23]

So the ammonia is dropping? That's a great sign. It's normal for there to be a lag time of several days before the nitrItes show up. Look at it this way...(kinda grossly put)...the first type of ammonia basically eats ammonia and excretes nitrIte. Since we don't eat and poo at the same time...there is a period you could consider digestion before the nitrIte begins being released. Perfectly normal and you seem right on track

 

[swimwithme]

So the ammonia is dropping? That's a great sign. It's normal for there to be a lag time of several days before the nitrItes show up. Look at it this way...(kinda grossly put)...the first type of ammonia basically eats ammonia and excretes nitrIte. Since we don't eat and poo at the same time...there is a period you could consider digestion before the nitrIte begins being released. Perfectly normal and you seem right on track

Thanks eco.

I'm trying to be patient, but that's not a strong suite of mine. As of now, I am checking my ammo every other day. If it drops, I've been adding around 1 to 2ml, depending on how low my ammo is. Been trying to keep my ammo around 4ppm. I guess it's just more waiting for now.

 

[swimwithme]

Ok, I wondering if I'm doing something wrong. As I previously stated, I started my fishless cycle on Sept 3rd. It has been almost 4 weeks and nothing has happened. I thought maybe my cycle had somehow stalled. So, I did a 70% water change on 9/23 and added my prime and 1 ml of ammonia back to the tank. My readings were: Ammo 2ppm, No1 0ppm, PH 8.0. I checked it the next day with the same results, so I added another 1 ml of ammonia. I re-checked on 9/25 an my ammo was still at 2ppm and No1 0ppm. So, I waited 2 days and checked it again on 9/27. Results were the same. So, I added 2 ml of ammo. I tested it last night and my ammo was >2ppm but <4ppm. No1 was still 0ppm.
Am I doing this correctly? I would have thought I would start seeing No1 showing up by now. I am getting impatient
Please help!
Oh, my water temp is 82.5

 

[eco23]

Just to clarify, how much ammonia does it seem to be dropping in a 24 hour period? Are you using a liquid test kit? What type / brand of ammonia are you using?

 

[swimwithme]

Just to clarify, how much ammonia does it seem to be dropping in a 24 hour period? Are you using a liquid test kit? What type / brand of ammonia are you using?

Yes, I'm using the API liquid test kit. I bought the ammonia from an Ace Hardware. It says its pure ammonia with no other chemicals.

It doesn't seem to be dropping any.

Here are my results: (my temp is steady at 82.5)

9/14 - Ammo 4ppm, No1 0ppm
9/17 - Ammo 4ppm, No1 0ppm
9/20 - Ammo 4ppm, No1 0ppm
9/21 - Ammo 4ppm, No1 0ppm
9/23 - Changed 70% of water and added Prime and 1ml of ammonia then
waited 30 min and my results were Ammo - 2ppm, No1 0ppm I left it alone
9/24 - Ammo 2ppm, No1 0ppm
9/25 - Ammo 2ppm, No1 0ppm
9/27 - Ammo 2ppm, No1 0ppm - Added 2ml of ammonia - waited and re-checked, my results were roughly Ammo 3ppm ( I say roughly because the results seemed to be between 2 & 4) My No1 was 0ppm

 

[librarygirl]

Hm, you should have seen movement by now, ammonia dropping at least if nothing else. Did anything get into the tank (or could have potentially gotten into the tank), such as air freshners, antibacterial cleaners, bleach, etc? Is your PH consistently 8.0? Just want to make sure it isn't dropping as a low PH can stall the cycle too.

 

[swimwithme]

Hm, you should have seen movement by now, ammonia dropping at least if nothing else. Did anything get into the tank (or could have potentially gotten into the tank), such as air freshners, antibacterial cleaners, bleach, etc? Is your PH consistently 8.0? Just want to make sure it isn't dropping as a low PH can stall the cycle too.

No, nothing has gotten in the tank. There is a lid on the tank and it is sealed pretty good.
My PH ranges from 7.8 to 8.0. I tested my tap water and it was 7.8

 

[swimwithme]

what should I do?

 

[eco23]

I agree it's odd and we definitely should have seen significant movement by now. Librarygirl knows all too well about cycles being slow to start, lol.

Normally this can be traced back to a pH issue or the wrong type of ammonia...all that looks good in your case.

My first priority would be going on a city wide search for seeded media. Beg the LFS or ask around work if someone has a fish tank they could donate a filter from. If you can't find a donation, see if the LFS will squeeze out one of their sponges into some water for you. Anything is better than nothing, and we definitely want to make sure we get some bacteria in there.

This actually does seem fairly similar to Librarygirls case where there's some degree of movement, but it won't seem to increase. I assume there always the possibility that some sort of nutrient the bacteria requires is lacking from your water supply. One thing you can do is add some fish food ground into a powder. That adds phosphates and some organics which you can think of like bacteria food. If all else fails, it might be worth a shot to head to the LFS and buy a mineral additive. These things are designed to be used with RO water which is absolutely pure...and it replenishes the water with all the things needed to support the bacteria and fish. That's pretty much a guarantee you'll be adding in anything potentially lacking. It's sorta a long shot...but definitely something I'd try. I think some of the brands are Kent's R/O-Right and Seachem Replenish.

 

[swimwithme]

I agree it's odd and we definitely should have seen significant movement by now. Librarygirl knows all too well about cycles being slow to start, lol.

Normally this can be traced back to a pH issue or the wrong type of ammonia...all that looks good in your case.

My first priority would be going on a city wide search for seeded media. Beg the LFS or ask around work if someone has a fish tank they could donate a filter from. If you can't find a donation, see if the LFS will squeeze out one of their sponges into some water for you. Anything is better than nothing, and we definitely want to make sure we get some bacteria in there.

This actually does seem fairly similar to Librarygirls case where there's some degree of movement, but it won't seem to increase. I assume there always the possibility that some sort of nutrient the bacteria requires is lacking from your water supply. One thing you can do is add some fish food ground into a powder. That adds phosphates and some organics which you can think of like bacteria food. If all else fails, it might be worth a shot to head to the LFS and buy a mineral additive. These things are designed to be used with RO water which is absolutely pure...and it replenishes the water with all the things needed to support the bacteria and fish. That's pretty much a guarantee you'll be adding in anything potentially lacking. It's sorta a long shot...but definitely something I'd try. I think some of the brands are Kent's R/O-Right and Seachem Replenish.

Oh, I guess I should have mentioned that I did add some ground up fish food at the beginning of the cycle. And again a week after, but I haven't added any since then.

I work for a small firm, so no help there. The only LFS around me are PetSmart and Petco and I'm not sure about the quality of their tanks, but it could be worth a try. I guess if that's not an option I could try the Seachem Replenish.

Should I do any more water changes or just leave it and add the Seachem Replenish?

Thanks for the help. I'm beginning to think that fishies are not in my future..

 

[eco23]

You'll have fish...you've just got to pass the fish gods challenge first

Water changes never hurt. You might as well. I can't guarantee the mineral additives will solve it...but it's the best idea I've got at the moment since it seems we've eliminated everything else. If you do pick it up, make sure it's a brand (doesn't have to be the Seachem one) which is for freshwater tanks. They should be fairly easy to find.

 

[swimwithme]

You'll have fish...you've just got to pass the fish gods challenge first

Water changes never hurt. You might as well. I can't guarantee the mineral additives will solve it...but it's the best idea I've got at the moment since it seems we've eliminated everything else. If you do pick it up, make sure it's a brand (doesn't have to be the Seachem one) which is for freshwater tanks. They should be fairly easy to find.

Fish gods challenge??? Oh boy, am I in trouble??

Great news..the guy at my LFS (Petco) has been really helpful and said he could get me some seeding material on Friday. (He works late that day and I will be able to go by and get it after I get off work) He said to just leave the tank as is, as it probably won't hurt anything at this point.
He said he would also show me some stuff to add to the tank, like Seachem Replenish. Oh, I hope this works. I am getting really impatient!

 

[eco23]

Fish gods challenge??? Oh boy, am I in trouble??

Great news..the guy at my LFS (Petco) has been really helpful and said he could get me some seeding material on Friday. (He works late that day and I will be able to go by and get it after I get off work) He said to just leave the tank as is, as it probably won't hurt anything at this point.
He said he would also show me some stuff to add to the tank, like Seachem Replenish. Oh, I hope this works. I am getting really impatient!

The fish gods can be very testy...ask Librarygirl, haha. If she got her tank through it...you can too. There's no way your tank is as stubborn as hers...but we ended up figuring it out eventually.

Sounds like you've got a good plan. Keep us updated...I'll be interested to see how it goes. I've been wanting to try out the mineral additives for slow starting cycles..maybe your experience will be able to help tons of other people if it works out.

 

[swimwithme]

The fish gods can be very testy...ask Librarygirl, haha. If she got her tank through it...you can too. There's no way your tank is as stubborn as hers...but we ended up figuring it out eventually.

Sounds like you've got a good plan. Keep us updated...I'll be interested to see how it goes. I've been wanting to try out the mineral additives for slow starting cycles..maybe your experience will be able to help tons of other people if it works out.

Thanks so much eco.
You have been a great help and so has librarygirl. I will definitely keep you both updated. I sure hope this works out sooner than later.

 

[swimwithme]

Okay still nothing. I got some seeded media, filter, water and gravel on 9/30 and put that in the tank along with a double dose of Nite-out II (bacteria).
Here are my results:
10/1- ammo - 2 to 3 ppm, No1 - 0ppm
10/2- ammo - 2 to 3 ppm, No1 - 0ppm
Added more Nite-Out II - 20ml
10/3 - ammo 2 to 3 ppm, No1 - 0ppm
10/4- 6:30 am added 20ml of Nite-Out II
Rechecked aamo - 2 to 3 ppm, No1 - 0ppm
Rechecked tonight at 6:30 - ammo still around 2 to 3 ppm, and No1 - 0ppm, PH was 7.8
What now? 4 days of seeded media and added bacteria and nothing. Should I keep adding the bacteria every other day as directed on bottle?

 

[librarygirl]

Oh no this looks familiar. lol

Hm, a month and almost no movement? Odd.

I wouldn't bother with the Nite Out. The bottled bacteria products can be hit and miss (at worst it can cause an unstable cycle in the future) and if there's something in your tap water or lacking from your tap water that's hindering nitrification, the bacteria in a bottle won't help anyway.

Did you try the additive Eco suggested? The R/O Right or Seachem Replenish?

 

[swimwithme]

I haven't tried the replenish yet since I have to order it. No one around me carries it. I guess I'm gonna half to order it and start all over. What a drag.

 

[librarygirl]

I haven't tried the replenish yet since I have to order it. No one around me carries it. I guess I'm gonna half to order it and start all over. What a drag.

Well not starting over....just seeing if adding the minerals helps. Just keep dosing and testing in the meantime.