Why did my fish fall ill? Help!

[bamboostew]

Trouble with new tank

Hello, new member here! Also new to the aquarium scene

I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank that I set up with plastic plants, decorations, gravel, a heater, a filter (Fluval Aquaclear for 50 gal), and two air stones. I let the tank cycle for approximately 5 days (per the recommendation of a Petsmart employee) after adding a bacterial supplement before purchasing one calico ryukin goldfish and one black moor goldfish (kept together in a tank at Petsmart, so I assumed they were compatible). I was careful in testing tank parameters prior to purchase (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and pH), and all checked out (0 ppm, 10-20 ppm, 0 ppm, and 7.4). I also conditioned all tap water prior to adding it to the tank. My black moor exhibited signs of stress (sitting on the bottom in the corner) almost immediately after adding him to the tank (I allowed the fish to acclimate to the aquarium temperature - 73 degrees - by placing their plastic bag in the water for about 20 min prior to releasing them). A couple of days later, my black moor developed ich (?) (white spots all over his body). I called Petsmart and an employee recommended that I use Melafix (API) to treat. I did this according to directions on the bottle, but it didn't help. I called again, got a different employee, and this person recommended that I treat with Super Ich cure (API) (at this point both of my fish were infected). I am on the second cycle of this treatment (two 48 hour cycles recommended), and it seems to be helping the ryukin. My black moor however, is not going to make it.

I would greatly appreciate any advice on what I did wrong / what I should do next.

I would like to get another black moor at some point, but am now unsure about compatibility (should I get two black moors?) and the health of my tank.

It saddens me that my fish is dying

Thank you all!!

 

[Fishperson]

I'm pretty sure those goldfish need bigger tanks, but I don't have experience with goldies. I can't really tell you much, but goldfish are often sick when bought. Going tropical would be a great idea, if you want to start over.

Do you know how to cycle a tank?

 

[bamboostew]

Thanks for your reply. All that I know about tank cycling is that its purpose is to establish a bacterial community in the tank in order to effectively remove harmful quantities of ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. I'm not sure how long a tank should be cycled for, however. A Petsmart employee told me a couple days is enough when using a 'quick start' bacterial medium...but I'm not sure I should believe what they say any longer...

 

[bamboostew]

Hello!

I'm a new member and new aquarium owner. I also posted in the 'getting started' thread, but thought this might be a more appropriate place for my problem.

I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank with plastic plants, decorations, gravel, a heater (set to 73 degrees), a filter (Fluval Aquaclear for 50 gallons), and two air stones. I allowed the tank to cycle for about 5 days after adding 'quick start' bacterial media (per the recommendation of a Petsmart employee). I then tested all tank parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH) - they checked out fine to my knowledge (0 ppm, 0 ppm, 20 ppm and 7.4).

I purchased two goldfish - a calico ryukin and a black moor from Petsmart (kept in the same tank in store, so I assumed them to be compatible). I allowed them to acclimate to the temperature of the tank for about 20 minutes (by floating their bag) prior to release. The black moor appeared to be stressed (he sat near the bottom in the corner of the tank, only emerging for feedings). A couple of days later, the black moor developed ich (?) / white spots. I called Petsmart and asked how to treat it - the employee I talked to suggested Melafix. I used this for a couple of days with no results (I now know I was wrong to follow this advice). I called again, got a different employee, and he recommended 'super ich cure'. I am on the second cycle of treatment (two 48 hour cycles recommended). It appears to be helping the ryukin, but my black moor is not going to make it

As a side note, I tested my water every day throughout the ordeal, and the parameters remained constant as listed above.

Any advice on what I did wrong?

Also, I would like to try again with a black moor, but want to make sure my tank is clear of ich before a new addition - any advice on how to do this?

Thank you!!

 

[Roz]

Hi there,

I'm not sure how you could have those water parameters if the tank has only been up and running a short while. Did the pet shop use liquid or strip tests? I have been told the strips are very inaccurate.

The fish probably brought illnesses with them. One of the forum experts will be able to guide you through a treatment. I suspect the fish are also stressed because of the move, and current water parameters in an uncycled tank.

There is a link/sticky about undertaking a fish-in cycle, which I am currently undertaking myself for some rescue guys. I'm sorry I can't paste it in this reply, but think it is pretty easy to find.

Could you post some pics and your schedule for water changes - will help the experts diagnose what is going on.

Hope your new pals get better soon.

 

[Greta1981]

Your moor could still make it. Goldfish are tough little creatures, so don't give up hope yet! As Roz said, those parameters seem odd given the uncycled tank. Do you have your own API water test kit? Pet stores often use inaccurate strips or expired test kits. Any fish keeper should have an API kit on hand to help keep their tank healthy. If you can test your water and let us know what the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are, that will help us help you. In the meantime, I'd recommend two 50% water changes, spaces two hours apart, conditioned with Prime water conditioner. I would also suggest stopping the ich medication as medication in an uncycled tank is typically not helpful. Clean water can fix almost all fish problems. 30 gallons is a little small for two fancies. Usually, 30 is recommended for the first and 10 to 20 for each next added fish, so water toxicity may very well be your problem. If you can change your water using Prime and test it with API, we'll do our very best to help your fish get back to healthy and happy ASAP.

 

[Haileyjade]

Not to bash large chain employees, but it is common for a lot of of them to give out misleading advice.

I don't know much about goldfish, only they require huge tanks and cool water. I am quite sure 30 gallons is too small to host two Goldie's, no matter the species.

I would definitely recommend looking into a tropical set up, as mentioned, if you do not plan on upgrading your tank size. There are so many colorful and interesting species, even for beginners.

AA is a plethora of information. I would research tank cycling, stocking guides, and start up information here instead of taking petsmarts advice.

Good luck!

 

[bamboostew]

Thank you both for your advice!

Roz:
I have an API master freshwater test kit. I've been doing partial water changes every day since purchasing the fish because the tank is un-cycled - I suppose this is why the tank parameters are so low? Thinking more about this, maybe the frequent water changes stressed the fish out further

I found the fish-in cycle link, thanks!

Oh, and I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow.

Greta1981:
Thanks for the encouragement! I've stopped the medication. As I mentioned above, I've been doing partial water changes (approximately 25%) daily since adding the fish in an effort to counter the lack of cycling. Just did a full suite of tests with my API master kit (freshwater of course) and my parameters still read 0 ppm for ammonia, 0 ppm for nitrite, and now between 20 and 40 ppm for nitrate. Also, I've been using Top Fin water conditioner for every partial water change.

Also, the ich seems to have disappeared from my ryukin, but my moor still looks like a goner

Thank you both again!!

 

[Greta1981]

It's great that you have an API test kit. Could we please see a picture of your black moor? That could help us diagnosing him.

 

[bamboostew]

I did my best with the pictures...didn't want to cause him any more stress / pain. As I mentioned, he seems to be on his last breaths. Hard to see, but he has small, white spots on his body (the quantity of spots has decreased since medicating). As you can probably tell, his color has also changed from black to gold - not sure why he's losing pigment.

Sorry for the sad pics

 

[Greta1981]

I'm hoping our resident goldfish expert is online soon and sees this post. I'm doing the best to help you based on my limited knowledge as a goldfish owner for about a year. I suggest you do two 50% water changes. Do the first one immediately. Right now. And the second one in no more than two hours. Water changes can make a huge difference in a fish even when it looks like it's on death door. You need to do them gently, conditioning the water and temperature matching it then pouring it slowly back into the tank. Your parameters may read perfect, but something still seems off to me in that respect. If there's any way you can get hold of some Prime water conditioner, that would also be great. I'm crossing all my fingers and toes for you and your fish. Come on, little guy!!

 

[jlk]

I actually can not see any ich spots in your pictures. However, the rapid loss of melanin (black pigment) indicates his organ systems are shutting down. Unfortunately, some fancies do not tolerate ich meds very well and their use can have devastating effects. You can try removing him immediately to a 5g bucket of properly conditioned water and add an aeration.

I honestly would work on some decent water changes in your tank and run some new carbon for 12hrs to help remove the ich med. keep the old media in the tank then place your old media back in the filter and toss the carbon. I honestly would focus on cycling your tank properly and safely right now unless you see further signs of disease.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

 

[venymae]

You are fine on tank size. 20 gallons for first goldfish 10 for every additional one is the guidelines for fancy.

Ich.
DO lots of water changes and vacuume substaite- every day.
Increase airation (make your filter splash and/or use a bubbler)
Give your fish a slime coat helper to increase their natural defenses
Read up on the parasite, the more you know, the better you can help your fish.
Freshwater Ich? Yuck! - Aquarium Advice
Fish Disease Index: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. - Aquarium Advice

 

[venymae]

Also minimize stress for your fish. Low light, maybe a cover if they are in a high traffic area of your house. Keep me updated ya? Ich sucks. I hope your black makes it, but he looked pretty bad in the pictures.

 

[bamboostew]

Thank you both. I've done the partial water change for my ryukin and removed my moor to the 5 gallon as suggested. It doesn't look hopeful, but I owe it to him to try everything I can.

 

[Greta1981]

Good luck! Keep us posted. Come on, little fish. Hang in there.

 

[venymae]

I posted on your duplicate thread about ich, but looking at your pics I have to agree with jlk in the fact that he does not look like he has ich. I know that's not very helpful right now, but I do wish you luck. Good water, low stress environment, maybe a slime coat helper. That's all you can really do for him now. Good luck!

 

[Roz]

I did my best with the pictures...didn't want to cause him any more stress / pain. As I mentioned, he seems to be on his last breaths. Hard to see, but he has small, white spots on his body (the quantity of spots has decreased since medicating). As you can probably tell, his color has also changed from black to gold - not sure why he's losing pigment.

Sorry for the sad pics

I'm very sorry to see your little guy looking so sad. You are doing everything you can and are getting excellent advice.

I'll keep an eye out on this thread and hope we see a happy fish very soon.

 

[bamboostew]

Thank you venymae and Roz!

Poor little guy is still hanging on, but there hasn't been any improvement.

On the bright side, after stopping medication, doing partial water changes (with conditioning), and adding aquarium salt to the main aquarium, my ryukin appears to have recovered.

 

[bamboostew]

Thank you both for your advice! As I posted in my other thread, the moor hasn't changed - still looks like he won't make it I've read up extensively on tank cycling and am trying to utilize all the advice I'm getting