Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Fishobsessed7]

Sound like they did fairly well the !


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[Bdonaldson]

I may have spoken too soon earlier. After finally getting the cobwebs out of my head, I found the male Blushing had died while I was away. The good news is that I have a Gold Marble Male that I didn;t have a mate for, so.... maybe..... I can get some blushing Koi out of that pair? Thankfully, I have a number of Blushers growing out so I will just need to keep a few to make new pairs.

Sorry about your loss Andy. Maybe the new pair will give you some great looking babies. Hope it all works out for you.

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[Autumnsky]

Sorry to hear about that loss. New hopes though.

Question about the fish I have. There is non stop drama beteen the 2 breeding pair and the other fish in the 72G tank. I am tired of it and was thinking of breaking up the pair with the Silver Stripe and the nice Koi Angel. They Silver lady rules the tank. No one can do anything unless she allows it. I think she needs to go. I don't anticipate having babies again as my tanks quantity are needing to go down (not up).

So thinking of getting her a new home.

Silver baby pic

Male Koi angel in tank is the big one on the left.

That leaves the big Koi male and the other pair: a Marble Koi and Blushing Koi here are the fish just for reference of color.

Baby pic Blushing Koi this one is more peachy colored overall now.

Marble Koi a little more orange now grown up.

Can I break these pairs up with out guilt? Or at least take out the female Silver and figure out which is the female of the other pair I think it is the Blushing and take her out too.

How will the boys get along?

How will 2 girls get along?

 

[Andy Sager]

Sorry to hear about that loss. New hopes though.

Question about the fish I have. There is non stop drama beteen the 2 breeding pair and the other fish in the 72G tank. I am tired of it and was thinking of breaking up the pair with the Silver Stripe and the nice Koi Angel. They Silver lady rules the tank. No one can do anything unless she allows it. I think she needs to go. I don't anticipate having babies again as my tanks quantity are needing to go down (not up).

So thinking of getting her a new home.

Silver baby pic

Male Koi angel in tank is the big one on the left.

That leaves the big Koi male and the other pair: a Marble Koi and Blushing Koi here are the fish just for reference of color.

Baby pic Blushing Koi this one is more peachy colored overall now.

Marble Koi a little more orange now grown up.

Can I break these pairs up with out guilt? Or at least take out the female Silver and figure out which is the female of the other pair I think it is the Blushing and take her out too.

How will the boys get along?

How will 2 girls get along?

In my experience, this is what I would expect to happen:
The 2 males will initially fight for dominance in the tank but will eventually settle down. ( Try to keep a lot of decorations in the tank for the "loser" to hide behind for safety)
The females on the other hand, may have more issues than the males. Since spawning females can ( and do) spawn on their own, they often exhibit the same aggressive behaviors even when not in a pair. The other possibility is that the 2 females may pair up and spawn together( which is no better than having a M/F pair as far as aggression towards the tankmates goes.) It can be a no-win situation with the females more than the males.
If it were me, I'd sell off the pairs and use the money to get new smaller Angels and start the process again. Once these new fish are old enough and start pairing off, I'd separate them before they start spawning. If you can keep them from forming that spawning bond, they should be less aggressive overall. As I've said in previous posts, the best way I know to keep multiple Angels in a community tank is to have all males and no females. It's the females that create the aggression between males and females that can be aggressive when they want to spawn. The males alone are just trying to be the dominant one of the hierarchy and once that is established, are much less aggressive.

As for guilt over splitting a pair up, that's up to you. I don;t feel it but then again, I am putting the 2 fish in with other mates when I split them.

Hope this helps

 

[PoppaRyno]

Hello Andy! Hope all is well. I read in another thread that all you found were koi's. You've been saying a lot that there just isn't much quality stock out there. We'll I have store in my town that is a hobbyist store. They breed, they follow standards and have at least 7+ strains available at all times. Some of them are Kennedy line pearls call platinum. Well thanks to your help and info I'm doing quite well with angels now. All this being said. I bought 12 dime sizes of a few strains. I'm only wanting a pair of each strain. I would like to offer some up. The pilot blues are raised by me.

The strains are: platinum pearlscale , solid black lace veil tail, marble koi, blushings , pinoy blue, zebras, and blue koi. Anything at all you might like would only cost you shipping as a Thanks for your hard work and all the sharing. It made my pinoy blues the envy of the club. Without you, I might have pulled my hair out.



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[Autumnsky]

Thank you for the additonal insight. The 1 silver female causes the most trouble, I would call her "ferocious beast". I wished the opposite two had paired, I wouldn't be having any issues right now. She picked the biggest best looking male though.

Having a hard time deciding on letting them go or trying males only or to pair the 2 I like. If I can get the awesome fish guy at club to let the two breed and get the babies, maybe.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Your way you over thinking it lady.

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[Andy Sager]

Hello Andy! Hope all is well. I read in another thread that all you found were koi's. You've been saying a lot that there just isn't much quality stock out there. We'll I have store in my town that is a hobbyist store. They breed, they follow standards and have at least 7+ strains available at all times. Some of them are Kennedy line pearls call platinum. Well thanks to your help and info I'm doing quite well with angels now. All this being said. I bought 12 dime sizes of a few strains. I'm only wanting a pair of each strain. I would like to offer some up. The pilot blues are raised by me.

The strains are: platinum pearlscale , solid black lace veil tail, marble koi, blushings , pinoy blue, zebras, and blue koi. Anything at all you might like would only cost you shipping as a Thanks for your hard work and all the sharing. It made my pinoy blues the envy of the club. Without you, I might have pulled my hair out.

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So, are you saying I can advertise my thread as a 'Hair Protection" thread?
Glad to hear my help has been helpful to you.

It's good to hear that there are still some stores getting quality stock ( and they figured it out too, in order to have good stock, you need to MAKE good stock! ) Hopefully, the people visiting that shop appreciate what they have available because if you read about what other parts of the country are getting, it IS a rarity these days.

I'm actually a bit interested in some of those strains. At the moment tho, I have to rearrange the place (already ) to house more grow out fish so I am unable to take any at this time. If you still have any when I am ready however, I'll definitely let you know. I'm also curious as to shipping practices these days so it will be a good test for when I want to ship as well. I'm just used to airline shipping in mass quantity so smaller shipment practices need to be learned.

Thanks for the offer

 

[PoppaRyno]

Anytime my friend.

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[Fishobsessed7]

You are definitely lucky popparyno! All I have is chain stores. They take good care of their fish, but they don't have certain color morphs. Just "assorted Angels"


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[Andy Sager]

After closer inspection, it turns out that the heaviest losses were the fry still needing the baby brine shrimp. My roomie did tell me she didn't realize how much I meant to feed in my instructions so she was underfeeding and told me when I got back that she was feeding every other day as well. THIS is the downside to being a one man operation using help from people who just don;t really know about fish. But, after only a couple of days of good feeding, I see some of the breeders are looking plump and getting ready to spawn. Time to get those 10 gals ready for eggs. I did finally pull the spawn yesterday, that happened the day I got back. Today I saw they were hatching so I'm still in the fry biz. lol

 

[conor]

Ahg sorry to hear about your losses Andy but as you say they will make more and soon by the sounds of it
But with only feeding every other day i guess you are lucky to have what you have survived

 

[fish wrangler]

Survival of the fittest with the limited feedings maybe?

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[Andy Sager]

Ahg sorry to hear about your losses Andy but as you say they will make more and soon by the sounds of it
But with only feeding every other day i guess you are lucky to have what you have survived

Survival of the fittest with the limited feedings maybe?

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This was why I wasn't saving the eggs so close to my trip. I knew they wouldn't do well on a single daily feeding of dead food. ( roomie misunderstood my instructions & went from my last instructions from my last shorter trip so it kinda screwed everything up.) What hurt the most was the loss of the pure 1/2 black spawn. I was really hoping they would have made it. But she's starting to plump up again so there is still hope.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well, the fish seem to know that " Daddy's home!" Fed this morning and came back this afternoon to 3 spawns and another pair cleaning the slate. What's really exciting is the red cap was one of the 3 spawners. Needless to say, I separated those eggs to make sure they are fertile. I REALLLLLY want to see what those eggs turn into. Another bit of giggles was the Silver/ Black spawn. I gave them a wider slate this time and she used the whole width. When I give her a thin slate, she uses just a little bit of it but not this time. lol
It goes to show the importance of good quality foods. They were underfed for near 2 weeks and in just a few days of better foods more consistently, they got right back to spawning. ( Roomie said she saw no spawn while I was gone.)
That's it for today.

 

[Mebbid]

I was given 2 marble angels and a white one that the owner put in a tank where the tips of their fins got chewed up a bit.

The marble ones are okay, there's nothing really spectacular about them but the white one is a bit strange. I've never seen one with the red coloration on the fins like this one has. Have you ever seen it before? It's a little more pronounced than the picture shows, but it's close enough. This one is just a hair bigger than a quarter right now.

 

[Andy Sager]

I was given 2 marble angels and a white one that the owner put in a tank where the tips of their fins got chewed up a bit.

The marble ones are okay, there's nothing really spectacular about them but the white one is a bit strange. I've never seen one with the red coloration on the fins like this one has. Have you ever seen it before? It's a little more pronounced than the picture shows, but it's close enough. This one is just a hair bigger than a quarter right now.

If you are talking about the area at the front of the dorsal fin, this is what I'm thinking:
Somewhere along the lines in creating Koi Angels, white was introduced into the color pallet of the fish. This is how the red caps and subsequent sunsets were developed. I can only assume that somewhere in the creation of the Platinums, ( which is what I believe you have) the white fish may have had some red or orange in their genetic makeup which is now showing up in your fish. Be aware tho, this coloration could turn to turn gold or deepen with red making it not such a great Platinum. The nipped fin tips should grow back so not a big deal for now. It's still a nice looking fish

Hope this helps

 

[Andy Sager]

Silly me, I thought the pair cleaning the slate were getting it ready to spawn on. Turns out, they had already spawned and hid the fry somewhere behind the sponge filter. I saw today, what looked like dust on the slate and upon further inspection, turned out to be wigglers!!! Not many but at this point, some is better than none. They look like they will be free swimming tomorrow or the next day. And, I did see some more tubes starting to show so things are getting back into the swing.

 

[Mebbid]

If you are talking about the area at the front of the dorsal fin, this is what I'm thinking:
Somewhere along the lines in creating Koi Angels, white was introduced into the color pallet of the fish. This is how the red caps and subsequent sunsets were developed. I can only assume that somewhere in the creation of the Platinums, ( which is what I believe you have) the white fish may have had some red or orange in their genetic makeup which is now showing up in your fish. Be aware tho, this coloration could turn to turn gold or deepen with red making it not such a great Platinum. The nipped fin tips should grow back so not a big deal for now. It's still a nice looking fish

Hope this helps

And thats why youre more successful at breeding than many people You have a ton of knowledge crammed into your head

Im just happy to have some decent looking fish tbh. Im not looking at breeding angels so it doesnt matter to me if they are perfect

But im curious, once the fry are free swimming in a tank with the parents do you leave them in the tank with the parents or do you remove them? How would you remove them?

 

[Andy Sager]

And thats why youre more successful at breeding than many people You have a ton of knowledge crammed into your head

Thanks. It's funny, I always say to people, " Don't even try to get into my head, there is so much "stuff" in there it will make you dizzy!"

Im just happy to have some decent looking fish tbh. Im not looking at breeding angels so it doesnt matter to me if they are perfect

But im curious, once the fry are free swimming in a tank with the parents do you leave them in the tank with the parents or do you remove them? How would you remove them?

There is nothing wrong with just wanting some nice looking Angelfish in a tank. Not everyone needs to breed them. There are some nice looking "hybrid" Angels out there so buying for looks is great. I always try to encourage gender specific schools so that breeding issues don't become an issue for people not looking to breed the fish.

What I'm finding today with these new fish is that they are throwing multiple different color strains which helps eliminate the need for color specific pairs. "Back in the day", if I wanted Gold Angels for example, I needed to breed a pair of Gold Angels. I'm now getting them from a Koi pair and a Zebra/ Silver pair because they have Gold Angel genetics. How I paired them up brings that out.
Getting to the part about separating the fry from the parents, I try to not let that happen. I pull eggs whenever possible so that the parents aren't involved past the spawning. If I miss that and the eggs hatch, I will pull the item the wigglers are on and move it to another tank. HOWEVER, when that time does sometimes happen and the fry do become free swimming, I use a siphon hose and suck out the free swimmers. It's a pain in the butt this way which is why I prefer to not let things get to this point. I try not to use a net on small fish fry except for livebearers. I use the siphon or pouring method whenever possible. As you may have read in a previous post, my Black male was just getting eaten alive by his fry because I couldn't move them and had to leave them with the parents. He is FINALLY looking like his old gorgeous self. Won't be allowing that to happen again.
Hope that answers your question