Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

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Thank you Andy. They are back to acting normal again. Just floating around the fry. Will deprecating them cause any problems with them spawning? Are angels monogamous?


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Thank you Andy. They are back to acting normal again. Just floating around the fry. Will deprecating them cause any problems with them spawning? Are angels monogamous?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Don't be fooled. That could just be a temporary truce. The male obviously wants to be the lead parent and if the female does something wrong again, the punishment could get much worse. :eek: I've lost fish to this type of behavior so I still suggest you separate the pair and just let the male raise the fry. It shouldn't effect their spawning later as the desire to breed will overtake the desire to fight. But again, Angels are Cichlids and as such, you take your chances as they do sometimes hurt each other beyond repair. :eek:

As for monogamy, I differ than most by saying NO, they are not monogamous as I have had trios and even currently, I have 2 females and 1 male together in a tank and the 2 females both spawn with the male separately after the initial spawning where the 3 took part at the same time. That doesn't sound monogamous to me. ;):whistle:(y)
 
Hey Andy Man,
Keep on typing away bro, we love your work and advise man!!![emoji12]

Thanks for all your help and helping others, I just want to wish you and family a very Merry Christmas dude!!![emoji319]

Clem
 
Hey Andy Man,
Keep on typing away bro, we love your work and advise man!!![emoji12]

Thanks for all your help and helping others, I just want to wish you and family a very Merry Christmas dude!!![emoji319]

Clem

Thanks Clem. The same to you and yours as well as the AA family here. (y)
 
Hey Andy Man,
Keep on typing away bro, we love your work and advise man!!![emoji12]

Thanks for all your help and helping others, I just want to wish you and family a very Merry Christmas dude!!![emoji319]

Clem

What this guy said! I hope you like paintings Andy, there's one coming your way from MissGurnus. Merry Christmas!

By the way, got a 3rd spawn from the koi pair; they're not very regular! Pretty small spawn too- much smaller than the previous two. Any thoughts?
 
What this guy said! I hope you like paintings Andy, there's one coming your way from MissGurnus. Merry Christmas!

By the way, got a 3rd spawn from the koi pair; they're not very regular! Pretty small spawn too- much smaller than the previous two. Any thoughts?

Well Thank you both. :) I look forward to seeing it. I hope it can hang in the hatchery. :D

3 spawns is no where near enough to figure out a "regular" cycle so don't think much of it just yet. As for the smaller amount of eggs it could mean 1-that they ate some of them before you saw them, 2- they aren't old enough to make a large amount of eggs for each time, or 3- the diet isn't high enough in protein to help them produce a lot of eggs in between spawns or the spawning time is too soon for them to be producing a lot of eggs. It would take a few spawns and different steps to see which one is the cause. If it's a continual thing, I would look into it otherwise, I'd just keep track of the diet and results based on days between spawns. (y)
 
Well Thank you both. :) I look forward to seeing it. I hope it can hang in the hatchery. :D

3 spawns is no where near enough to figure out a "regular" cycle so don't think much of it just yet. As for the smaller amount of eggs it could mean 1-that they ate some of them before you saw them, 2- they aren't old enough to make a large amount of eggs for each time, or 3- the diet isn't high enough in protein to help them produce a lot of eggs in between spawns or the spawning time is too soon for them to be producing a lot of eggs. It would take a few spawns and different steps to see which one is the cause. If it's a continual thing, I would look into it otherwise, I'd just keep track of the diet and results based on days between spawns. (y)

They definitely didn't eat any- I was watching them ;)

And their diet is a cube of bloodworms or brine shrimp every day plus a feeding of quality flake so I don't think it's the protein. I would have to guess it's just youth. In any case I'll accept the blessing of not needing quite as much space ;)
 
They definitely didn't eat any- I was watching them ;)

And their diet is a cube of bloodworms or brine shrimp every day plus a feeding of quality flake so I don't think it's the protein. I would have to guess it's just youth. In any case I'll accept the blessing of not needing quite as much space ;)

Unless there is a lot of additions to it, frozen brine shrimp has little to no nutritional value so as a protein source, it's not. Bloodworms have more protein than the shrimp but worms are a better source for protein than bugs. I'd use FD Tubifex or worm flakes and use the frozen brine to flush out the fish after using the FD worms. If you go worm flakes, use the BS as a weekly treat. FYI: If you can get clean live worms, I'd take those over the FD as a better protein source. My hatcheries used to go through 3 to 4 pints of live worms a week which was why I was making so many Angels. :brows: :whistle:
 
Hmmm... Up until a little before their last spawn I was feeding enriched frozen brine shrimp and then I ran out and got regular.... That may have been the difference. I'll see what I can do about getting more worms.
 
Hmmm... Up until a little before their last spawn I was feeding enriched frozen brine shrimp and then I ran out and got regular.... That may have been the difference. I'll see what I can do about getting more worms.

Diet, not just food or the amount of food, but the actual diet makes such a big difference in Cichlid breeding. If the fish is a bug eater, they will get better ready to spawn on a buggy diet. That's all the protein they need. Angels are not primarily bug eaters, they are fish eaters. They will eat small live fish and live worms which means they need a higher protein diet for their general health and vitality. What's protein for some fish is just a snack for others. ;)
Sounds like you did the same thing I did, you changed the diet and got a bad result. Make a note to yourself, enriched brine shrimp yields a better spawning result than regular brine shrimp. :brows: Change nothing else but go back to the enriched brine shrimp and see if it makes a difference. Then you will know for sure. (y)
 
Having some personal experience with medical research, it sure helps to point out how it can take so long to come up with answers. Especially with this situation I am in. :facepalm: What some don't realize, for example, is that while it may cost pennies to make a pill, it takes millions of dollars of research and development to get to that point. In my case, I am so many months into this "dilemma" and it wasn't until yesterday, during a conversation with my friend, discussing the a,b,c,d,e things I have been doing to see what would work, that 1 thing, just 1 thing would answer all my questions and give me the direction I need to go in. But again, if I didn't do all those other things first, I wouldn't have had a reason to think to do this one thing. Just like in medical research. :facepalm: This last experiment has been set up and I should have an answer by tomorrow morning. (y)
 
So I took your advice and am just about ready to buy half a pound of angelfish flake with 48% protein. Between that and bloodworms I think that should be good for protein. And of course I'm going to switch back to enriched brine shrimp before I start the new flake to see the difference it makes...
 
So I took your advice and am just about ready to buy half a pound of angelfish flake with 48% protein. Between that and bloodworms I think that should be good for protein. And of course I'm going to switch back to enriched brine shrimp before I start the new flake to see the difference it makes...

You need to be careful of how much protein you give the fish however. Bloat is a very common issue for Angels and improper diet is often the culprit. Make sure you add roughage in some food types ( I use regular frozen brine shrimp for this) to prevent digestive problems. It's all about balance. As I've said in the past, I use the frozen brine shrimp solely as a means to help the fish get rid of the freeze dried worms I fed them earlier in the day. It's not supposed to be "nutritious", the other foods I fed earlier did that, it's supposed to make them poop! :brows::lol:(y)
 
Sounds like I need to do some more reading on fish nutrition. I'm going to hit Web of Science to see if there's been any studies done... Angels plus angelfish flakes, frozen bloodworms, and frozen brine shrimp sounds like a good start for now though, yes?.

For what it's worth I have never had a serious issue with bloat in fish so I must be doing something right!
 
And you've kept and bred how many Angelfish before? :confused::whistle:

Ok, maybe not angelfish, but I've kept blue and bolivian rams, geophagus, severums, multis, lots of corydoras, a bajillion kinds of loaches, among other things- and no bloat. I'd say that's not bad! ;)
 
Ok, maybe not angelfish, but I've kept blue and bolivian rams, geophagus, severums, multis, lots of corydoras, a bajillion kinds of loaches, among other things- and no bloat. I'd say that's not bad! ;)

But here's the thing, the only fish in your list that comes close to an Angelfish is the Severum so how you did with all those other fish doesn't really count. It's the same as saying "i did great with Guppies so I will do great with Discus." Very different fish with very different needs. ;)
I'm just trying, as kindly as I can, to tell you that you are dealing with a fish that is very different than most fish, especially now because they are so unlike their ancestors. I know because I dealt with their ancestors. Many of their traits are so atypical of Cichlids as most know them or other "community fish." But mostly, to help you avoid the wrath of the
Fish Gods who don't take kindly to those who boast of their success. That's always been a recipe for disaster in my experience. ;):whistle:
 
I'm just trying, as kindly as I can, to tell you avoid the wrath of the
Fish Gods who don't take kindly to those who boast of their success. That's always been a recipe for disaster in my experience. ;):whistle:


I edited this and wish I had heard these words myself years ago!:ermm:
Curse these rams!:nono:


:ROFLMAO::eek::ROFLMAO::eek::ROFLMAO::eek:

Interested in the 'final' experiment.........
 
Fair enough! As soon as I said it all 3 of my pairs stopped eating and a bunch of my plants turned yellow! I hear thy warning fish gods, I am but thy pawn! :whistle: :hide:
 
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