Wisteria are looking funky
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Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
Holy moley that's quite the hair algae outbreak.
What are you doing as far as ferts and a carbon source go?
Are you using any root tabs for your wisteria?
What lights do you have over your tank?
How long are you running them daily?
If this is only growing on the wisteria it's very likely there aren't enough ferts in the substrate for it to grow. Even with a planted tank substrate root tabs are still needed for the heavy root feeders such as water wisteria and sword plants.
I would start with manually removing as much of the algae as you can. Next I would reduce the lighting time down to six hours daily. After that it can be spot treated with either excel or standard store bought hydrogen peroxide. Using either method turn off the filters and lights then apply; wait 15 minutes before turning the filters and lights back on. You can use up to 2ml / g of hydrogen peroxide safely this way or the standard dosage of excel.
What are you doing as far as ferts and a carbon source go?
Are you using any root tabs for your wisteria?
What lights do you have over your tank?
How long are you running them daily?
If this is only growing on the wisteria it's very likely there aren't enough ferts in the substrate for it to grow. Even with a planted tank substrate root tabs are still needed for the heavy root feeders such as water wisteria and sword plants.
I would start with manually removing as much of the algae as you can. Next I would reduce the lighting time down to six hours daily. After that it can be spot treated with either excel or standard store bought hydrogen peroxide. Using either method turn off the filters and lights then apply; wait 15 minutes before turning the filters and lights back on. You can use up to 2ml / g of hydrogen peroxide safely this way or the standard dosage of excel.
Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
Theres a few things that you are missing from your dosing regimen. Firstly is a carbon source and then after that you are missing nutrients.
The biggest issue is the lack of carbon source. Without going into pressurized co2 I would highly suggest looking into adding either seachem excel or Metricide 14 day sterilizing solution. They are practically the same thing although the metricide 14 is waaaaaaay cheaper and twice as strong. You can add up to 1ml / g of excel to your tank although I would start out at 1ml / 10g and work your way up from there. The metricide 14 can be dosed at half that amount.
Plants need three different macro nutrients for growth. Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium as well as a whole host of micro nutrients such as iron, boron, zinc, copper, magnesium, maganese, and molydbenum. Currently out of all of those you have Nitrogen, Iron, boron, and magnesium. The two missing macros are really going to limit your plant growth as well as the lack of some of the traces. Try looking at dry fertilizers from Green Leaf Aquariums. They have great combo packs of the ferts for a minimal price and they will last you a looong time.
Estimative Index | Aquarium Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums
Also, you will definitely need to look into root tabs for your plants. I would suggest going with O+ root tabs (Or a similar brand)
Lastly, you are definitely running your lights a bit too long giving your algae more time for growth. I wouldn't do more than 6 - 8 hours of lighting per day.
The biggest issue is the lack of carbon source. Without going into pressurized co2 I would highly suggest looking into adding either seachem excel or Metricide 14 day sterilizing solution. They are practically the same thing although the metricide 14 is waaaaaaay cheaper and twice as strong. You can add up to 1ml / g of excel to your tank although I would start out at 1ml / 10g and work your way up from there. The metricide 14 can be dosed at half that amount.
Plants need three different macro nutrients for growth. Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium as well as a whole host of micro nutrients such as iron, boron, zinc, copper, magnesium, maganese, and molydbenum. Currently out of all of those you have Nitrogen, Iron, boron, and magnesium. The two missing macros are really going to limit your plant growth as well as the lack of some of the traces. Try looking at dry fertilizers from Green Leaf Aquariums. They have great combo packs of the ferts for a minimal price and they will last you a looong time.
Estimative Index | Aquarium Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums
Also, you will definitely need to look into root tabs for your plants. I would suggest going with O+ root tabs (Or a similar brand)
Lastly, you are definitely running your lights a bit too long giving your algae more time for growth. I wouldn't do more than 6 - 8 hours of lighting per day.
flitabout
Aquarium Advice Addict
Yeah that's hair algae! from the leaves I can see you have a serious nutrient deficiency. You need root tabs for both the wisteria and the swords. Like Mebbid said you are dosing micros but no macros. The plants are lacking potassium nitrogen and phosphates and a carbon source. Glut or Metricide will be your cheapest bet. I just bought a 1/2 gallon bottle for $9.00 off of amazon. If you buy it just make sure you toss the activator bottle away you don't want or need that in your tank.
It also looks like you have some sort of spot algae on the glass in your tank. Which if I am not mistaken shows a phosphate deficiency.
Rivercats will be able to explain this better. She has helped me a ton in getting my tank going as well as it is and I have had my share of algae issue too. You are not the first. But here is my take on how it works:
When the lights come on your plants will begin to photosynthesize. To do this properly plants will need a carbon source like co2 and fertilizers. The more light the more of the carbon and the fertilizers they need to continue to photosynthesize. If all of the plants needs are being met with the plants will grow like a weed especially wisteria. But if there is a deficiency it leaves a hole open for the algae to get in there and grow. So if the algae does get in there it can actually over compete the plants for the available nutrients that are there. But if all of the plants needs are being met it will out compete the algae. It's a balancing act. Lights, ferts (micro and macro) and carbon.
So now to solving your issue. If you can't get all of the algae off of the leaves just pinch them off and get rid of them. Wisteria grows back really fast so no worries there. I also noticed that you have the beginnings of the hair algae on your sword too. It's that fuzzy look on the leaves. I had it too that's how I noticed it. I would pinch those too. When you see it get it out. I wasn't having good luck with spot treating so I just went to 1ml per gallon of the glut. I am also running DIY co2 so I added another bottle. I changed up my fert regime. I am currently using flourish root tabs and flourish comprehensive. So instead of dosing the ferts once a week I lowered the dose and I dose every morning 30minutes before the lights come on. I dose ml per gallon. I did some quick math and without making my brain hurt I figured that 1ml/cc of ferts a day would give the plants what they need for the day without mega dosing for the entire week. (I am still waiting for my pps-pro to come in so I can really customize the dose and get in the rest of the macros that I too am lacking. I am finally seeing lots of improvement. The algae I do have is turning red and dying off, My plants are growing even faster. So maybe this will work for you too.
I hope my experience can help you.
It also looks like you have some sort of spot algae on the glass in your tank. Which if I am not mistaken shows a phosphate deficiency.
Rivercats will be able to explain this better. She has helped me a ton in getting my tank going as well as it is and I have had my share of algae issue too. You are not the first. But here is my take on how it works:
When the lights come on your plants will begin to photosynthesize. To do this properly plants will need a carbon source like co2 and fertilizers. The more light the more of the carbon and the fertilizers they need to continue to photosynthesize. If all of the plants needs are being met with the plants will grow like a weed especially wisteria. But if there is a deficiency it leaves a hole open for the algae to get in there and grow. So if the algae does get in there it can actually over compete the plants for the available nutrients that are there. But if all of the plants needs are being met it will out compete the algae. It's a balancing act. Lights, ferts (micro and macro) and carbon.
So now to solving your issue. If you can't get all of the algae off of the leaves just pinch them off and get rid of them. Wisteria grows back really fast so no worries there. I also noticed that you have the beginnings of the hair algae on your sword too. It's that fuzzy look on the leaves. I had it too that's how I noticed it. I would pinch those too. When you see it get it out. I wasn't having good luck with spot treating so I just went to 1ml per gallon of the glut. I am also running DIY co2 so I added another bottle. I changed up my fert regime. I am currently using flourish root tabs and flourish comprehensive. So instead of dosing the ferts once a week I lowered the dose and I dose every morning 30minutes before the lights come on. I dose ml per gallon. I did some quick math and without making my brain hurt I figured that 1ml/cc of ferts a day would give the plants what they need for the day without mega dosing for the entire week. (I am still waiting for my pps-pro to come in so I can really customize the dose and get in the rest of the macros that I too am lacking. I am finally seeing lots of improvement. The algae I do have is turning red and dying off, My plants are growing even faster. So maybe this will work for you too.
I hope my experience can help you.
Here's what I'm thinking -
Compiling the info you folks have presented, I'll add the nutrients I need. And it makes sense to me if I think of it like a body. I can set up an infusion set, almost like a tank IV in a way, and infuse the environment. I can get a flourish tank kit and add flourish trace. Essentially set it up to infuse at specific intervals and I can control it manually, titrate to effect.
With the liquid fertilizer, though, I've read mixed reviews. Some people swear by it, some hate it. What are your thoughts on liquid fertilizer over the tabs? I notice you've both suggested tablets.
Also, I'm considering scrapping the majority of the wisteria plant and don't to bare minimum for regrowth.
Compiling the info you folks have presented, I'll add the nutrients I need. And it makes sense to me if I think of it like a body. I can set up an infusion set, almost like a tank IV in a way, and infuse the environment. I can get a flourish tank kit and add flourish trace. Essentially set it up to infuse at specific intervals and I can control it manually, titrate to effect.
With the liquid fertilizer, though, I've read mixed reviews. Some people swear by it, some hate it. What are your thoughts on liquid fertilizer over the tabs? I notice you've both suggested tablets.
Also, I'm considering scrapping the majority of the wisteria plant and don't to bare minimum for regrowth.
flitabout
Aquarium Advice Addict
The type of fertilizer depends on the type of plant. Some plants are grown perfectly with ferts in the water column, while other take most if not all of the their nutrition from their roots. Plants like swords crypts, and wisteria get the majority from their roots.
The difference in the dry ferts verses the liquid IMO comes down to cost. Dry fertilizer is much cheaper and lasts longer. While the liquid need to be stored in the fridge to maintain freshness after a certain period of time. Dry ferts are also easier to customize to only what your tank needs.
Also I wouldn't bother with the trace. It's the macros that you need and the trace are more of the micro that I am guessing that you have plenty of. If you want to stick with the liquid you will need to buy all 3 if going with seachem products Nitrogen,potassium, and phosphate. They are all about $10 a bottle or you can go with Mebbid recommendations on his post that is the stuff lots of us here are using, and it's what I ordered, that brand I just got the pps pro pack because I am going to be starting 3 more tanks in the next few months so I figured I should just cover my bases ahead of time. I would also recommend getting a phosphate test kit.
The difference in the dry ferts verses the liquid IMO comes down to cost. Dry fertilizer is much cheaper and lasts longer. While the liquid need to be stored in the fridge to maintain freshness after a certain period of time. Dry ferts are also easier to customize to only what your tank needs.
Also I wouldn't bother with the trace. It's the macros that you need and the trace are more of the micro that I am guessing that you have plenty of. If you want to stick with the liquid you will need to buy all 3 if going with seachem products Nitrogen,potassium, and phosphate. They are all about $10 a bottle or you can go with Mebbid recommendations on his post that is the stuff lots of us here are using, and it's what I ordered, that brand I just got the pps pro pack because I am going to be starting 3 more tanks in the next few months so I figured I should just cover my bases ahead of time. I would also recommend getting a phosphate test kit.
Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
There's two different fertilizer dosing options that are used frequently at the moment. One is the Estimative Index and the other is the Perpetual Preservation system or EI and PPS Pro. EI is the fert method that I use and it basically floods the tank with nutrients with a 50% weekly water change to keep the nutrient levels from getting too high. You rotate dosing the Macros and Micros daily. On the other hand the pps pro is a more fine tuned system that focuses on providing just what is going to be absorbed. PPS Pro is the system that rivercats uses.
With either of the dosing methods you use three different bottles to mix your ferts in. One for Nitrate, one for Potassium and Phosphate, and the Last for micros. Doing it this way lets you avoid adding additional nitrate to the system which is something that I noticed that the liquid fertilizer has mixed into it. I use 3 old API stress coat bottles with the dosing caps to mix and dose mine with. You could also use an auto doser to easily add the ferts to the tank.
The liquid ferts are imho a serious waste of money for anything but a low light tank. The EI fert pack that I bought from green leaf for $16 has lasted me 4 months currently and I am expecting another 5 months out of it before I have to buy more. You can also customize the mix if you notice any deficiencies in a particular nutrient without adding too much of the other nutrients.
You can save your wisteria if you want to. Try pulling it out of the tank and sticking it into a bucket of water with a 2ml / gallon dose of hydrogen peroxide. This should kill the algae on it.
With either of the dosing methods you use three different bottles to mix your ferts in. One for Nitrate, one for Potassium and Phosphate, and the Last for micros. Doing it this way lets you avoid adding additional nitrate to the system which is something that I noticed that the liquid fertilizer has mixed into it. I use 3 old API stress coat bottles with the dosing caps to mix and dose mine with. You could also use an auto doser to easily add the ferts to the tank.
The liquid ferts are imho a serious waste of money for anything but a low light tank. The EI fert pack that I bought from green leaf for $16 has lasted me 4 months currently and I am expecting another 5 months out of it before I have to buy more. You can also customize the mix if you notice any deficiencies in a particular nutrient without adding too much of the other nutrients.
You can save your wisteria if you want to. Try pulling it out of the tank and sticking it into a bucket of water with a 2ml / gallon dose of hydrogen peroxide. This should kill the algae on it.
It actually looks more like Rhizoclonium. Is it soft and slimy? Rhizo is often caused by low nutrients, low CO2, and low flow in a tank.
What size is the tank and what plants do you have. How much of the substrate is planted? You said you have a T5 bulb... is that a HO or NO bulb? Also is it a single bulb?
You need to know your nitrate readings and your phosphate readings. If you don't have a phosphate test you need to get one. You want nitrates at 10-20ppm and phosphates 1-3ppm. I have found that usually 3ppm of phosphates keeps Green Spot Algae away.
I do strong recommend using liquid carbon daily. You can get a gallon of Metricide 14 Day solution for about $27 shipped if you shop around. It's mixed at a 1:1 ratio with RO or Distilled water. It must be stored in opaque, total light blocking containers as light will break it down and render it useless if not stored correctly. Start the 1st week at 1ml per 10g of tank water. Week 2 do 1ml per every 5g water. Then about week 4 you can if needed go up to 1ml per every 2 gallons of tank water but that is the max for the amount of light you have right now. Probably 1ml per every 5g might be the amount you need.
You can spot treat the algae with hydrogen peroxide 3% using 1-3ml peroxide per every 1 gallon of tank water. Slow squirt the peroxide as close to the algae as possible. Turn off the filter/s before treating and leave them off 20 minutes after treating. If you have a lot of algae to treat you can do an area a day. Algae usually begins to die off within 24 hours. If you use excel you can use 1ml per 2 gallons to spot treat the same way as above but this then is all you would use for a day. You would not also add your daily amount.
Dry ferts are economical but I'd like to see the tank size, types of plants, and how many you have.
What size is the tank and what plants do you have. How much of the substrate is planted? You said you have a T5 bulb... is that a HO or NO bulb? Also is it a single bulb?
You need to know your nitrate readings and your phosphate readings. If you don't have a phosphate test you need to get one. You want nitrates at 10-20ppm and phosphates 1-3ppm. I have found that usually 3ppm of phosphates keeps Green Spot Algae away.
I do strong recommend using liquid carbon daily. You can get a gallon of Metricide 14 Day solution for about $27 shipped if you shop around. It's mixed at a 1:1 ratio with RO or Distilled water. It must be stored in opaque, total light blocking containers as light will break it down and render it useless if not stored correctly. Start the 1st week at 1ml per 10g of tank water. Week 2 do 1ml per every 5g water. Then about week 4 you can if needed go up to 1ml per every 2 gallons of tank water but that is the max for the amount of light you have right now. Probably 1ml per every 5g might be the amount you need.
You can spot treat the algae with hydrogen peroxide 3% using 1-3ml peroxide per every 1 gallon of tank water. Slow squirt the peroxide as close to the algae as possible. Turn off the filter/s before treating and leave them off 20 minutes after treating. If you have a lot of algae to treat you can do an area a day. Algae usually begins to die off within 24 hours. If you use excel you can use 1ml per 2 gallons to spot treat the same way as above but this then is all you would use for a day. You would not also add your daily amount.
Dry ferts are economical but I'd like to see the tank size, types of plants, and how many you have.
I can give you a better and more thorough break down of the tank when I get home from work if needed...
This particular tank is 20 gallons. I have 3 platy, 3 guppies, 2 lace catfish, 2 mystery snails, a couple red cherry shrimp and 4 harlequin rasbora.
I'll include a pic of the plants in the tank for you. The pH generally stays around 7.4. I can't remember the last test readings for the rest of the levels but I can definitely get that tonight.
This particular tank is 20 gallons. I have 3 platy, 3 guppies, 2 lace catfish, 2 mystery snails, a couple red cherry shrimp and 4 harlequin rasbora.
I'll include a pic of the plants in the tank for you. The pH generally stays around 7.4. I can't remember the last test readings for the rest of the levels but I can definitely get that tonight.
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JnessaK
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2013
- Messages
- 41
It is a 2 bulb light bar not 1! I'm the gf if EMTiler, it's our tank, and it's struggling
thanks for all the suggestions and the help! Had no idea that much went into a planted tank:/
thanks for all the suggestions and the help! Had no idea that much went into a planted tank:/
JnessaK
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2013
- Messages
- 41
I thought the plant substrate would have the nutrients needed for the plants...... Apparently that was wrong!
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