Wondering if I have big problems

[huffdaddy]

Hi all,

I've been fighting a losing battle for the last couple of days with my new tank. It's about 6 weeks old and I'm just getting the nitrogen cycle really going (nitrites are starting to rise). I've been trying to get a sick guppy well over the last few days, but sadly, he died today, the victim of a combination of fin rot (which I caught and medicated for) and a likely internal parasite (which I didn't catch until it was too late). If you're willing to help me here, you might want to check out my postings on this subject on the Unhealthy Fish forum:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=72976

Anyway, I'm now down to two guppies and two neons. I'm doing a 50% PWC daily to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels as low as I can (ammonia just tested at 0.25ppm and nitrites at 0.5ppm, and they were about 0.50 and 0.50 before the PWC, respectively). Now, my remaining fish seem to be spending more time that normal around the top of the tank, and a couple seem to be breathing more rapidly. Here's a complete rundown of the tank:

10 gallons, HOB filter, water level is set so that spillway is about 3/4 of an inch above the water. I have been noticing that I have a white ring around the top of the tank, which might indicate lime in the water? Tank temp is currently about 77F, and I'm trying to bring it down to about the 74F range. I'm actually starting to wonder if I need to run the heater now at all, because the temp in my house is pretty stable and there are no drafts on the tank. I see lots of tiny bubbles just floating around in the tank. pH is 7.0.

I totally at a loss what the problem is, if I even have a problem. Given my reading here on the forum, the ammonia and nitrite levels in the tank don't seem too out of wack for this point in the start of the nitrogen cycle, but given it would be better if they were lower. Daily PWC's at the level I'm doing them are going to continue until the levels go down where they should be. More worrisome still, one of my neons seems to be losing its color which is making me worry that it might be Neon Tetra Disease.

I realize that this is a lot to throw out here, but I'm starting to fear I'm going to lose the whole tank. I would appreciate any and all tips and suggestions, and thanks in advance for your time.

Alan

 

[bman]

If you dosed meds to the tank, you probably killed off some of the bacteria you need to cycle the tank. That is going to set back the cycle time. Your levels, though high, are not insaely high, and I would not do daily pwcs, but try skipping a day in between.

Also, I would not lower the temp in the tank, 77 is fine. Mine runs at 80.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

Typically neons arn't the hardiest of fish. They are very tempermental, and although i find them a beautiful schooling fish, I won't get them because of their instability. Guppies at times can be along those same lines, with the amount of inbreeding that happens, sometimes it seems like they have problems.

Overall, you are experiencing the downfalls of a fishy cycle. The tank is very instable right now as your perameters jump around while establishing the nitrogen cycle. No worries though, keep up what you are doing, as it pertains to keeping the harmful ammonia and nitrite levels in check, and in a safe range for your fish. Ultimatly this slows down the cycle, however you will get there in time.

The white build up you see on components and around the top of the tank seems like calcium deposits. I have it too, thank you chicago water. I usually try to just wipe it off during water changes and regular maintance.

If you are thinking about keeping the fishy cycle, you might want to get some hardier fish, should the ones you have now die off. Zebra Danios are an excellent and very hardy fish to cycle with. HTH

 

[huffdaddy]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm sure that part of the problem is the cycle, I wasn't aware that guppies and neons were not really that hardy. Hopefully, the remaining guys will be able to hang in there until the cycle is complete, but I'm sure worried about that one neon. From what I've read, NTD is not treatable and can spread to other fish, so I'm a bit iffy about leaving him in there. His color has really faded over the past week, sure sounds like NTD to me, but maybe other things could cause this that I should look for and treat? I'm surprised that the LFS guys didn't warn me of this...it seems like the people I talk to at my local PetSmart are fairly knowledgable (I know, don't laugh too hard, but they seemed on par to me).

I'll keep hangin' in there with these guys and hopefully get them through the cycle and then get them some new friends.

Thanks guys,

Alan

 

[Gill]

If its only his overall color that's changing it can really be anything. Most likely not NTD (but its definitely a possibility).

I've been going through similar problems with my tetras but I think I've almost got it sorted out now. The ring around your tank MIGHT be due to whatever medications you used to dose your fish. One of my fish had a white splotch which I thought was NTD, but now I'm guessing its just his coloration.

This might help you:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=73296

Seems more like mistakes I made regarding water changes and the like rather than any diseases (I hope ).

My neons also start to get pale when my nitrites increase (they get less oxygen), so that's usually when I know to do a PWC. Also, I read an article stating that they are diurnal and that when they sleep they loose a lot of their color. I kept getting all worried waking up in the morning to pale tetras but mine always get their color back within a couple hours as they wake up.

Best of luck to you! I'm surprised you've been putting up with this for 6 weeks!

 

[huffdaddy]

I know that I probably made a major mistake when I changed my entire filter out on week 4, which likely set my cycle back a bit, from what I've read. But I've stocked slowly (didn't get to 5 fish until week 4) so it could be that I just didn't get the ammonia at a level necessary for the cycle to start. Things are coming right along now, though, ammonia is staying around 0.25ppm and the nitrites are starting to take off (over 1ppm last night, so a PWC is on tap for today).

BTW, my fish haven't been sick for 6 weeks, if that's what you meant. The first guppy started looking bad at about 4.5 weeks, and the tetra has been this way for about a week or so, that I've noticed. His buddy, the other neon, looks fine, however, and I'm pretty sure that the coloration thing isn't varing through the day.

Thanks,

Alan

 

[An t-iasg]

Some fish do lose their color at night as a defense mechanism. A stressed fish may show some more pronounced color changes or become a lighter (more pale) color. The neons, as mentioned, are not very hardy to cycle with. The stress of the cycle could be getting to him. Also, neons like to be in larger groups than just two, and that also could be a source of stress. I know you don't want to add more fish right now, until your cycle stabilizes. When it does, I would keep a school of about 6 neons. Zebra danios are hardy, but I would hesitate to recommend them for a 10 gallon tank. They are very fast fish and need a bit more room than the 10 gallon.

 

[huffdaddy]

Thanks for the advice, An t-iasg. My cycle, BTW, is now coming along nicely. Ammonia has gone to 0ppm and the nitrites are peaking at about 1ppm before I do a 50% PWC.

Do you have any recommendations for new fish to add to this 10g after the cycle is done? I wasn't too knowledgable about the fish species to get for a tank this size when I started...I basically let my son pick out what he wanted, and used the standard stocking guidelines for adult size and loading during the cycle start. I'm still partial to the guppies for their variety and coloration, but seems there is quite a lot of bad press about their hardiness and genetics.

Thanks


Alan

 

[An t-iasg]

You could add more guppies. I know what you mean about the genetics - bettas, my favorite, are so popular that you never know how they were bred. One of my previous bettas kept getting finrot over and over while others were fine. Try to find a guppy breeder - maybe a local fish club will know of a breeder. That way you'd know what you were getting, more so than just going to the lfs.

Since you like guppies, have you considered some other livebearers? Mollies or platies are compatible with the tetras, and they both come in a variety of colors and are small fish for a 10 gallon tank - just don't overstock! If you don't want fry, just pick a few males.