Red Slime tank in distress Please help

[zapdbf]

I have had an active tank for about 6 months now, and i began to see a purple coating coating everything in my tank, i mistaknely thought it was corline algie, but after battleing this stuff for a while i finaly was able to descripe this stuff to a person at my lfs, and they said it was red slime. so i purchaced some formula to remove red slime. i after that i did an intenet search and learned more about red slime. and discovered it is not realy that bad for the fish but it makes your tank look bad, -- well to make a long story short, after i eraticated the red slime i noticed most of my live rock was bleach white, i then realised that my benificial bacteria must have been killed with the red slime. the next day i tested my water and found high amounts of amonia .75 ppm so as a panic situation i changed out 14 gal of water my tank is a 65 gal tank. as another emergency measure i put 118 ml of cycle in the tank to get some bacteria back into action, and i also used a product called ammo lock. it is now 3 days later and my ammonia is still at .75 and brown bacteria is coating my lr.
- i only use ro water
- the fish are not showing signs of stress that i can tell.
hiding, darting, not eating.

Critters"
foxface rabbit fish
yellow tail tang
yellow tang
Seahorse
feather duster
coral start.

stats are as follows

sg 1.022
no2 <.1 ppm
ph 8.1
no3 10 ppm
ammonia .75 ppm
1.) has anyone had any expeience with ammo lock, and how often should i use it. at best i found the instructions veague about continued use untill the tank is fixed. the insert said it will work upto 3ppm.

2.) What else should i do to get this fixed asap.
3.) any advice will be helpfull.

 

[TCTFish]

Ammo lock is just a temporary fix. It does not remove ammonia, but instead seals the toxicity of it. It is recommended to do a water change after two applications (should state this right on the bottle). The ammonia molecules will be released, so instead of using Ammo lock, just use bio suppliments like Cycle or better yet...NitroMax Marine. Keep up on small but frequent water changes till the ammonia and nitrite are back at zero.

Red Slime is cyanobacteria. Though harmless to fish, it can harm corals, especially stony coral.

 

[zapdbf]

well, yes ammo lock is, but if you need to react to a potental disaster i feel it is a good thing, definately not perfict, but if it will keep my fish from expiring i will do everything i can. i just don;t know how long i should wait between doses untill i get this thing under control, i will probibly continue to use it untill the amonia drops down. unless anyone can give me a good reason not to use it.

 

[Hara]

You should be doing a LARGE (50%) water change followed by daily water changes of 30% until the ammonia is completely gone. The reason you are experiencing this high ammonia rate is indeed, the cyano was treated with an antibiotic, which is indiscriminate in the bacteria that it kills, both good and bad were removed and you are correct in the assumption your liverock is now not very effective. This is the problem with using chemical fixes that LFS people send your way. I would be using the water changes as your means of dealing with the problem. Just because you do not see fish dieing today, does not mean that they have not bee affected by the ammonia. You must just hope for the best.

As a side note, I must say that you should consider removing that seahorse from the tank after this is all said and done. The environment is less than optimum in its conditions.

 

[zapdbf]

"As a side note, I must say that you should consider removing that seahorse from the tank after this is all said and done. The environment is less than optimum in its conditions."

-- Why, do you think that the tank will no longer be right for inverts?
what do i need to consiter to get my tank right again.

if my tank has no ammo, no no2's and no no3's, no copper, -- what else do i need to
consiter when housing inverts.

My first set-up crashed in about july of last year, lost all of my fish and i don;t know why.

this time since about nov (when i set it up new again) i have been dilligent about my water condition, testing qt tank ect ... everything was great untill the cayno issue. i think that the cayno killed off the bacteria and the cayno was supporting my tank, and when i killed off the cayno i then lost any bio filtration i had.

So far as of this morning everybody seems fine. but that could change in an instant.

this weekend i will keep to the advice and do a 30 gal change. hopefully that will help fix this. -- now that leads me into another problem -- i don't have that much aged salt water.
so i iwll mix the salt in a jug and then put it in the tank quickly, how dammaging is that to my fish ?
Will it come down to the lesser of two evils ammo or non aged salt ?

If anyone has comments or experience with the ammo lock product any input about this would be very helpfull, i realize it is not the best thing, but when you see a potential diszaster you want to react quicly.

 

[Hara]

"As a side note, I must say that you should consider removing that seahorse from the tank after this is all said and done. The environment is less than optimum in its conditions."

-- Why, do you think that the tank will no longer be right for inverts?
what do i need to consiter to get my tank right again.

A seahorse is a FISH not an invert.

It is a fish with very unique needs, none of which you have met

You need to do what you can as far as salt. Start mixing and aging now, do not add freshly mixed salt water to the tank. I cannot comment on the ammo lock, I don't use it.

 

[zapdbf]

what ever i need for this kind of fish i want to do it, what are the conditions that i need to meet?

 

[Hara]

For one thing, they need to be in a tank without other active fish that will out compete them for food. It needs to be in a species only tank, low flow, pristine water conditions and fed several times daily.

 

[TCTFish]

Ammo Lock has the benefit of being an emergency additive to lock the toxicity of ammonia away from the fish. The ammonia molecule is sealed. The recommendation for a water change after two doses is because the molecule will be released back to it's toxic state. It doesn't seal it indefinitely. It's only temporary.

Bio additives such as Cycle and NitroMax will actually eat ammonia (and nitrites) until the system's bio can recover. Less room for a surprise spike in ammonia.

Using the two combined would proabaly insure more protection overall.

Seahorses are very fragile and for the sake of the wild populations of seahorses, purchase captive bred only unless you intend to breed for conservation purposes. Seahorse populations are under serious threat.

Seahorses should be the most aggressive animal in the tank. A pristine and mature reef system is what they need. Low light...nice macro algae to hide in and hold. There are low light and non photosynthetic coral that can be housed in a seahorse tank. I would recommend a refugium filter over a skimmer. Makes nicer natural growth and can help produce enough copepods for the seahorses to eat once in awhile. Most seahorses only accept live food. Once in a while you might find one that will accept frozen, but be prepared to have a reliable source for live brine and ghost shrimp.

Definitely read up on seahorses before obtaining them.

 

[seaham358]

Cyno does not kill off bacteria... How old is this tank and what size is it?
What kind of water are you using?

the seahorse needs to go if you want it to live long term. They are very delicate critters and need there own tank like the others said.
Adding chems to a tank is a quick fix or bandaid, not a cure to the problem.

Keep testing your water for ammonia.
Read up on cyno bacteria needs phosphates, low flow, old light bulbs to grow. Have you ever tested you water for PO4? if so what are the readings.

read , read and then read some more on the hobby.. Cutting corners is only going to cost you more money in the long run and most LFS do not know what their talking about. We are not after your money here like the LFS, we are trying to give you advice to have a healthy and happy tank.

 

[zapdbf]

thank you seaham358 , tctfish, yes i do read but my problem is i am listening to th lfs. this is why i am here, i want to have a fantastic tank and i am willing to learn and make it right.

all of the fish in my tank are herbavors, and the seahorse is the only carnavor. the seahorse is tank raised. this is why i thought he would be fine in my tank.

and a word about the sea slime, i read on a website that it will overrun the good bateria, unfotuinatly i did not realize this soon enough. (mistake)

It is hard not to make mistakes untill you get the hands on. sofar tonight all seem well yet.


ok here is the plan, i have 16 gal of salt water aging, this is all i have at this point because i only use ro water and have to purchace it and i have not had the chance to get enought for a 30 gal change yet. i want to do a 16 gal change tomarow ( not sure if that is long enough to age but this is the best i can do now) i will add some more ammo lock and some more cycle to the tank. then get another 20 gal of ro and let it age to sunday and do a 20 gal change.

i am going to test my tank now i will post the stats, yes i have po4 test kit i will test this

 

[zapdbf]

here are the stats as of tonight
no2 .1 ppm
ph 8.2
nh3 .75 ppm
no3 5 ppm
po4 1.0 ppm
sg 1.022
tank size 65 gal
canister filter
skimmer
been in successful opperaton for 6 months(until now)

 

[zapdbf]

i noticed that my no3 is down, does'nt that indicate the lack of bio activity ?

 

[zapdbf]

i think i will need to purchace some more lr.

 

[Hara]

Cyno does not kill off bacteria.

Cyano itself does not kill good denitrifying bacteria, but alot of the products that are sold to combat cyano, contain antibiotics, which do kill off the denitrifying bacteria.

 

[zapdbf]

ok i have completd a 30 gal water change here are the stats

no2 < .1 ppm
no3 5 ppm
ph 8.0
nh3 .30 ppm
sg 1.020
now i was going to use a product to put the ph back to 8.2 but i read the instructions
and it said that if ammo is present that rasing the ph will cause the ammo to become more toxic. so i decided not to use this yet. And just let the ph be as it is for a while

The next step i want to take is to use more ammo lock, to help seal it, then durring this week do a 2 gal water change each day.

So far the fish seem ok they are eating quite well. although the coral start seems to be showning signs of problems, turning brown shrinking around the edges.

one concirn is that i had a 3 degree shift durring the water change durring the change the water temp fell to 74.0 from 77.1 after water change within about 5 hours the temp came back to 76.5.

so the delta of the water change is as follows.
no2 0 ppm 0% change
no3 0 ppm 0% change
ph -.1
nh3 -.45 ppm 40% change
sg -.002

1. Does my plan sound ok ?
2. What else should i be doing that i am missing?

 

[zapdbf]

i also put another 12 pounds of lr in my tank (cured)

 

[TCTFish]

Good call on the pH, but to get a true reading of ammonia, stop using the Ammo-Lock at this point. Ammo Lock has it's use and is good for it's purpose. Right now however, you'd be better off to start dosing a bio additive like NitroMax Marine in its place for a couple of weeks. Once ammonia is at a safe level, then tend to the pH. It is a natural reaction for pH to go down as ammonia levels go up. With this in mind, whenever pH is low, it's a good idea to test for ammonia.

There are natural fluctuations of temps normally. Though a few degree difference can be felt by fish, I wouldn't worry much over three degrees over a period of time. Ich seems to be what most fish break out with when the temps change suddenly and that's only if ich are present in the aquarium. For any concerns, you could opt to offer garlic soaked food about once or twice a week for about two weeks. Some people offer garlic soaked food on a regular basis..usually once a week as a way to prevent external parasites from wanting to latch onto the fish. A lot of little critters do not like garlic, just as fleas don't and I just found out that ants don't like garlic either. They stay clear away from it. SeaChem and Kent Marine have these garlic additives.

 

[zapdbf]

TCTFish isn't cycle the same thing(well close), i did a web search on nitromax and it looks like it comes in two bottles, one for nitrifing bacteria, and one with oxygenating bacteria.

Obviously you feel this is a better product, - do you have any reasons that you beleve this ?

I'm not saying it isn't but i am just trying to get as much info as i can. in othe words what does nitromax have over cycle?

 

[zapdbf]

btw i have not put the ammo lock in yet, still getting ideas.

I did hear some chatter about garlic, but i did not realize it was used for this purpose. i thought it was used to get a fish to eat. If it can prevent ick i will do this reguraly!

Is there a recomendation on how to prepair this ? (any links that offer good information would be great)