Big decisions

[Heiko]

Hi all,

Hope im not being annoying but ive got so many questions. But im making a big trip th my lfs on saturday and i want to know exactly what to do.

Right heres the low downon my tank.

Inhabitants; 2 male swordtails, 2 danois, 1 green tiger barb.

Water perameters; pH = 6.5 - 7, Amonia = 0.0mg/l, Nitrite = 0.0mg/l, Nitrate = 0 - 6mg/l.

What i want to do is to get a pair of Chichlids (Kribs possibly) some bottom dwellers (maybe ottos) and then get some more danois. (will take 1 take swordtail and barb back)

Heres some pictures of my
tank.http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=65218&highlight= Any improvement suggestions are welcome. (looking to get plants aswell).

Sorry its such a long post, but im really xcited.

Thanks for your time.

 

[rich311k]

What size is the tank?

 

[Heiko]

Sorry,

70 litres, wich is 20gal equivelent.

Knew i had missed something out.

Thanks

 

[CompMage]

Tank parameters look like a nice healthy tank.

As for suggestions. It's good you are taking the Sword and Barb back, but take both the swords back not just one. As for what you want to stock in there. Yea have for the most part an open tank. With a PH that low most Cichlids would be very happy.

I don't like to make recommendations on fish to much so I'll pass on that. Just make sure you get enough Danois to make them happy, 5 should do it. Personally I think giant danios look great.

As for the tank. I think it looks nice, clean and not to cluttered. As for adding plants. As long as you've done the research and your home work go for it. You'll need a lot more light then was in that camera phone picture.

 

[talloulou]

I agree with taking the barb back. They really belong in schools of at least 6-8 or they become problematic.

I also agree you should get more danios so you have a school.

The otos are good but I don't really consider them bottom dwellers per say...They mostly eat algae off the glass and plant leaves and of course any veggies you put in the tank will be loved as well.

For a bottom dweller I would go with a small school of corys or 1 of the smaller plecos. There are a few that will remain under 6 inches max.

A dwarf cichlid pair would be nice.

If you keep one male swordtail I would add a few females. Of course they will breed but they are pretty cannibalistic so that should take care of the babies. Keeping two males isn't a good idea as they will bother one another. If you only wanted males you'd need like 5-6 to cut down on the aggression.

 

[Heiko]

right,

so in the 20 gal am i basically limited to 20" (inch gal theory)?

With danois at 1 and a bit inches (say 5 = 6")
Ottos 1.5" not sure how many (lets say 3 = 4.5")
Dwarf Chiclids say 4" (2 of them = 8")

and i havnt got much room for any more,

One problem i have is that i live on an island with only 2 lfs so theres not that much choice. but i went in for a sneek peek today and fr the first time in ages i saw chiclids. They had kribs and firemouths and what i thought could be rams possibly.

What do you recon would be the best for myself a seasoned beginner? I also fancy giving breeding a go so possibly bear that in mind.

P.S how can i get anymore light or maximise what ive got?

Thanks again.

 

[bosk1]

True that you are close to your limit, strictly speaking, using the inch/gallon theory. But, and others please correct me if you disagree, these are all small fish you are talking about, so you can probably get away with more. The inch/gallon rule, as I understand it, is more a guideline than a rule, and the type of fish and mass of the fish needs to be taken into account. By way of illustration, 8 inches of neon tetras will not produce anywhere near as much waste or place nearly as much stress on your bioload as 8 inches of oscar (they also would not displace as much water as an 8-inch oscar). So it does not seem to me that you would unduly stress your bioload with that arrangement, or even by adding a few more smallish fish. Others with more experience, what do you think?

 

[poppab02]

Heiko, I think you've got it narrowed down pretty good. Maybe adding an extra danio wouldn't hurt. Don't worry about bottom feeders, just don't overfeed and you'll be fine without them and the otos will take care of algae which is a much more annoying problem than not having a bottom feeder. If you want to breed the dwarf cichlids are probably you're best bet. Don't overcrowd the tank, it can discourage breeding.

That pH looks good for SA dwarfs like Rams but you'll also have to test for hardness as they like soft water. You might try searching old topics about Rams and Apistos to figure out what's right for you or start another topic thread on them. If you want to breed them I would definitely take back the swordtails and barb and stick with the danios and otos as tankmates. HTH

 

[poppab02]

Sorry, forgot about the lighting. Hopefully you are using flourescent and not incandescent lighting. If not, switch. If you are then you can buy lots of different types of flourescent tubes at the lfs to change and increase lighting. Beyond that, you can build a whole new lighting apparatus, however that's probably overkill unless you have plants that need alot of light.

 

[talloulou]

Don't go for the firemouths....I don't consider them "dwarf cichlids" and they could wreck havoc on your tank. Stick with the rams or kribs. And I'd still suggest something to clean up the bottem scraps....either some corys or kuhli loaches or a small pleco.

 

[Heiko]

right was at Lfs today (day early but i had time after school) bought 3 ottos (atleast i think there ottos, called sucking loaches) but when i asked for a pair of kribs the guy told me i didnt have enough room for them and that they would kill my danois. Whats all that about?

Anyway i love my ottos there so cool. And im might go to the other lfs tomorrow if i get the chance. maybe ill see something there.

P.s did see what i thought was a bolivian ram today but it was on its own. Was realy cool but id preferably like a pair.

Thanks everyone

 

[talloulou]

Hmmmm did they tell you how big the "sucking loach" would get? I have never heard of ottos being referred to as sucking loaches, at least not in the United States. They do sell a fish here called the sucking loach that grows big, stops eating algae, and gets sort of aggressive. Hopefully that's not what you got.

As far as the kribs go many lfs have a strict policy of telling customers never to mix and cichlids with non-cichlids. However the dwarf cichlids can make suitable community tankmates. They may become aggressive if you get a pair that breeds. During breeding they can get very territorial. Also they may nip at larger slow moving fish like angels and gouramis.

Here is a link to the fish most commonly sold as a sucking loach here in the US

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cyprinids/chinesealgae.php

as you can see quite different from an oto.

 

[talloulou]

Here is a link on otos

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile76.html

They stay very small.

 

[Heiko]

hmm om not shure what mine are then. i hope there not the first. ill try and get some pictures.

So you recon i should go for the kribs? i would preferably like a breeding pair of egglayers if that makes any difference.

piuctures on their way.

 

[talloulou]

Kribs are egg layers and they require caves for breeding so make sure you have some caves. I think the danios would make great dither fish for the kribs. Not sure about the sucking loach though....Otos would be fine. Kribs stay mostly in the mid-bottem level of the cage and they usually do well in tanks with some fast moving dither fish for them to chases. So I think they'd do fine in your tank.

 

[Heiko]

right after reading the profiles i do think i have the sucking loaches instead of ottos. BUGGER i want to know if he wouldnt sell me kribs why he would sell me these as by what i have read they git bigger and more agressive.

heres some pics below.

So do i try and take these back or do i stick with tem untill they get a little bigger? Because i know one LFS is always looking to trade credit for mature fish.

THanks, it always happens to me. I will never have the setup i want.lol

R.E kribs. I have one huge cave complex, i small flowerpot on its side and 1 seramic log. hows that?

 

[talloulou]

One of the biggest problems with the sucking loach is that they tend to try to suck on other fish when they get big. But I think they mostly go after other big slow moving fish. Not sure if they would/could suck on a dwarf cichlid. Hopefully someone will be able to guide you better. If it was me I'd return them just because they weren't what I was intending to buy....Also they will stop eating algae as they age.

 

[rich311k]

If they are not you wanted and you just bought them, I would return them.

 

[Heiko]

so you think there definatly sucking loaches from the photos. I think they are. God how am i going to get around this one.

My other problem being a student witout my own transport is i have to get my mom to come with me when i go to f the lfs. Shes not very into it so im under so much pressure to buy something and get out. Its nto the ideal situation. Plus i never know what fish theyve got in untill i get there. So its a lot of pressure and i sometimes end up making the wrong decisions as with the sucking loaches.

thanks for your imput, you dont realise how appriciated it is.

 

[talloulou]

I can't say for sure from the pictures.....Here is a pic of my otos if that helps. The coloration between the two fish is very similar making it hard to tell them apart but I believe otos are darker and their heads are bigger.

I have the Aquarium Fish Handbook by by Dick Mills & Derek Lambert. I usually take it with me when I stop in the fish store so I have a good reference and don't have to rely on the store employees. Also, the fish stores usually have this or similar books for sale so feel free to pick one up and use it while your browsing if you have a question about a fish or a fish name that you're unsure about. The book I have lists common names and scientific names so it's really helpful. Also if you are shopping for a particular fish feel free to call the store on the phone and find out if they have it in stock. Hope that helps.


http://www.aquariumadvice.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=9903