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Old 10-14-2006, 12:19 PM   #1
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Bolivian Rams and PH (and IS this a bolivian ram?)

Well, I'm not one to test PH very often, it usually doesn't change... However, i JUST checked the PH of my 15 gallon, and had to bust out the "high PH" test. Its just a hair under 7.8!!! Normally they float around 7.2 or so, which keeps my options fairly open.

I was hoping to get 2 more bolivian rams, as they just got in stock here in brampton. and are about the same size as my current ones. Maybe i can get 2 feamales.
Anyway, They are a cichlid, so i imagine they'll be fine in the basic water,
But what gets me is that I have driftwood in there, and eco complete... My water is around 7.2 out of the tap. Where did this PH reading come from?

as well, i have 2 small angels in there. They typically like a bit acidic, correct? if so... Will they be "comfortable" in that PH? I don't think they'ed fare well in my 44 gallon, as the black phantom Tetra's tend to be fin-nippers. Its also a higher current tank, (AC70, and a 201 powerhead)

Let me know what you think... I'll go pick them up in an hour (they're BEAUTIFUL. They also have fully grown ones, but i'd rather grow my own lol (they're going for 10 bucks a fish :-S)

And just to make sure... This IS a bolivian ram, correct? (see photo)
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File Type: jpg ram_736.jpg (133.5 KB, 253 views)
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:57 PM   #2
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Yep...Bolivian. Regarding your ph, hard to tell why you would get 4-5 pts more than what you started with unless you have something in the tank that is buffering the water.
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:02 PM   #3
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I always thought red eyes=GBR and black eyes=Bolivian
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:28 PM   #4
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That's a GBR. They prefer soft, acidic water, but a stable pH is much better than the perfect pH. They have been tank bred for so many generations that it may not matter much. They are South American cichlids like angelfish and make good tank mates for angels. It's generally the African rift lake cichids that like hard, alkaline water.
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:49 PM   #5
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I am 100% positive that it is a German Blue Ram and NOT a Bolivian. Bolivians don't have the yellow or nearly as much coloring though they are still beautiful fish. As Maxwell pointed out, GBR's have red eyes. BTW, in case you were wondering, the fish pictured is a female.

GBR's should have a pH between ~6.5 - 7.0, but I have had them in pH of 7.6 or so with no problems. As many will say "A stable pH is better than a correct pH." I think this is true for the most part.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:21 PM   #6
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Yep, that is a GBR not a Bolivian.

While they prefer acidic water, as long as you keep consistent water conditions they should do fine. FYI, they are very sensitive to KH changes. What is your KH at?
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:03 PM   #7
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Yep, my mistake.
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:18 PM   #8
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Thanks guys, I went to big al's. Compared, (they actually had both!)
Bolivian rams do not have red eyes, and are MUCH larger (at least theirs were) I bought 3 GBR's to go with my current 2. They are slightly larger, but my tank is well fed. As well, the fact that i'm keeping them with angels is proof that they are GBR's... the dude at big al's said that the bolivians would have taken the angels on, regardless of size.

Thanks for the input guys (and gals)

I'm amazed at how clear the picture turned out! lol. Even the guys at the fish store were blown away. (considering its a Point and shoot camera)

*edit

CaptnIgnit, the hardness (KH) is at 9 degrees hardness. If it werent for the PH, i'd see if i could get a male! (i think i have 5 feamales now!)

I kinda went crazy at the store today. I was supposed to buy a seasons pass to Blue mountian (ski resort) But i ended up not. THis is my "splurging" money, and it was "Only" 60 bucks or so...
I bought 3 GBR's(10 bucks each! (OUCH!!!!)), 3 Dwarf Neon Rainbows(4 bucks each) (to go in my 44 gallon) and a large Sword plant (15.99)

Someone tell me its ok to spend that much money in one visit. It'll make me feel better! :P
*edit*edit (again)

bs6749... you said it was a MALE?!? Hrmmmmm! I'm going to take more pictures now! I don't see too much of a difference. Some are more colorful than the others. (the ones i've had for about 6 months are much brighter!)
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Old 10-14-2006, 04:40 PM   #9
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If you post pics of each one I can tell you what they are. I have gotten pretty good at sexing them as I have 8 of my own. I just looked at your pics again and I am not so sure that it is a male. I think I see pink and if that is the case then it is definitely a female. I was going by the pelvic fins though. It looked like they extended past the anal fins but maybe not far enough. You need more of a "profile" shot so that I can see the fish straight on instead of it being slightly angled. ( I know... it is hard to do LOL) My 4 females have pink ALL of the time and my males are MUCH larger than the females.

I forgot that Bolivians are larger than GBR's too as you pointed out. That is another thing that separates them
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Old 10-14-2006, 04:47 PM   #10
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Sorry for getting your hopes up sudz. I took another look at the pics and you have a female there. I see a pinkish tint to the belly and the fish is rather small. As I said the males are usually a little bigger than the females. Maybe you have a male in the others that you bought though.
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Old 10-14-2006, 04:54 PM   #11
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Just as an aside here... Bolivians also make great tank mates for angelfish. They are less timid IME than GBRs, and a little more aggressive with conspecifics, but keep to the lower 1/2 of the tank and are not likely to bother angels. My Bolivian and angel don't pay any attention to each other.
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Old 10-14-2006, 06:22 PM   #12
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ok, after like...45 minutes of waiting for the fish to "pose" Heres what i got:


Now... I'm certian there is at LEAST 3 different fish in the 5 pictures i took. Its so hard to tell. I have 2 smaller ones, and 3 larger ones. I tried to get a mix. The firstpic (which was declared as a female) was of the small ones.

I cropped them all down to 1024x(whatever) so they'd let me fit. CLick on them to see the UB3r Large version. (at 1024 res.)

Any Idea if i have males AND feamales?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5_183.jpg (115.2 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg 4_110.jpg (135.4 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg 3_212.jpg (112.2 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg 2_715.jpg (127.1 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg 1_254.jpg (140.9 KB, 59 views)
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Old 10-15-2006, 04:00 PM   #13
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Nobody knows? :'(
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Old 10-15-2006, 04:03 PM   #14
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looks like all males to me, lol except for maybe fish 4 kinda looks like a feamle but i'm not sure.
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Old 10-15-2006, 04:32 PM   #15
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Those are some nice looking GBR's.

It looks like you may have all males. The only questionable one is in Pi3, the one on the right could possibly be female by looking at the pelvic fins. But it's not a real good pic. All the other pics are males.

What to look for is the pelvic fins on the bottom of the fish. On a female, they won't go past the start of the anal fin, on the bottom of the fish near the tail. You see in all the pics, the pelvic fins all go past the start of the anal fin. That's males. But the fish on the right in Pic 3, it's too hard to tell.
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Old 10-15-2006, 05:47 PM   #16
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At a closer look lonewolf, The fin is AT the anal fin. It doesn't pass it, its just... Right where it starts. The one thing i notice is that its back fin is more "rounded" at the corners, where the other fishes are more angular. By back fin, i mean the fin at the end of the fish (not on top)

Does that help at all? As well, What should be the male/female ratio if i indeed do have both in the same tank? That small "maybe female" is one of my original rams. He/she did get chased a bit by the other original ram. I assumed it was because theyre was only 2. Thats why i now have 5. There is NO conflicts anymore.

I was they were as easy to sex as my guppies were... you could actually see the... ermm... "organs" in volved in reproduction. lol (trying to keep things rated G here :P)
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Old 10-15-2006, 06:13 PM   #17
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Sounds like a female. As for ratios, it doesn't work with GBR's, as when they pair off, the pairs will stay together. If you have more females, you will have a better chance of a pair forming, but then the outcast may be harrassed some. But all depends on how much room they have in the tank.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:52 PM   #18
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Just noticed this... It says that your most recent post occured Tuesday, October 17th. Though currently... its still Monday, October 16th. Server glitch?
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:06 PM   #19
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Yes, the server I believe. I can't even keep my birthday on the same date, lol.
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