Can't get nitrates down??

[electromango]

Just performed about a 40% water change. My nitrates before the PWC was about 40-80 ppm and now it looks the same, maybe slightly lighter (it's so hard to tell on the api master test kit). So, I decided to test my tap water and it turns out nitrates are about 20 ppm. I know 40 ppm isn't dangerously high levels but I have a blue ram in there (29g) and they are notorious for their sensitivity to nitrates. What do I do to lower them?

I can't really get RO water because it would be such a pain to transport that much water over and over.

I have 2 java ferns, 1 amazon sword, and 2 anubias in my tank with 3 guppies, 2 platies, 1 honey gourami, and 1 blue ram.

Thank you so much for any help

 

[enrgizerbunny]

Get an extra HOB filter and dangle the roots of a house plant in it. The flowing water will keep the roots from rotting and the plant will take up extra nitrates. I haven't tried this specifically, but I do have a aquaponics system that hasn't had a water change in a month and a half with thriving fish.

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[BBradbury]

Lowering Nitrates

Hello elec...

If you're a good water changer, like at least half the tank's volume every week, that's good enough for your fish. Nitrates are at the end of nitrogen cycle, so even 50 ppm will at most give the fish a very slight headache. Lower nitrates is always preferable. So, you drop in some individual stems of Hornwort, Common water weed (Anacharis) or Pennywort. Once these plants are established, they take in nitrates and any other form of nitrogen like ammonia or nitrite, through their leaves. They'll reduce your nitrates.

A company by the name of Acurel, has some fiber padding that you can cut to fit your filtration equipment. There is one for reducing nitrates. Check it out. In the mean time, you need larger, more frequent water changes to steady the water chemistry.

B

 

[Steve2223]

Lower ur nitrate

I've fallen in love with seachem's purigen and matrix every time I check my ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate they are 0 I have a 55 with 10 angels 50 cents + in size plus 12 cories 2" in size and 2 very large female guppies I feed dry food every morning plus frozen brine shrimp twice a week and shrimp pellets 3 times a week after dark. I have 2 HOB filters One I have loaded with matrix the other with purigen they both also have mech. Trash filters before the bio filters I also have 2, 29 loaded the same but with air filters

 

[electromango]

Thanks everyone for the ideas.

Regarding the purigin, can I put it in my aqueon queuetflow 30 power filter? And where do I put it/how? And how does it work/how effective is it? Thanks

 

[PB_Smith]

In the mean time, you need larger, more frequent water changes to steady the water chemistry.

No you don't.
BB offers this as an answer to each and every aquarium related issue and IMO speaks more about the lack of his/her knowledge rather than an abundance of it. The only advice offered in that post that is sound is the addition of the plants mentioned, but 50% water changes weekly or more often are not needed and could actually have adverse effects on some fish.

Many supermarkets have the water dispensing machines. Are there not any near you that you could use?

I also strongly agree with using Seachem Matrix or De-Nitrate biological media. They offer immense surface area and immense internal surface area for anaerobic bacteria to thrive which break down nitrate.
Purigen is also great as a replacement for carbon.
A unit of Chemi-Pure couldn't hurt either.

The concept is to try and remove as much dissolved organics as possible before the water hits the biological portion of the filter system. So the best sequence is mechanical>chemical (carbon/Chemi-Pure/Purigen)>biological.
Utilizing that procedure you are removing dissolved organics before they reach the bio filter which results in lower nitrates in the long run.

Having said all that, 40 ppm of nitrate is perfectly acceptable in freshwater.
If the fish are doing great, don't kill yourself chasing numbers.

 

[FishyMcBites55]

since your nitrates are high coming out of the tap, one of the only ways to minimize them is to get some nitrate sponges like hornwart, or anachris. Just keep up your water changes and provide optimal filtration.
This can be very frustrating (I as a fellow aquarium owner know). Just fight through it!!!

 

[Steve2223]

Purigen

I put it in a women's nylon stocking and put it in place of the carbon seachem also has bags for it.
Go to seachem web site they explain how it works and how to use it

 

[BBradbury]

Water Changes

Hello again elec and to PB. Don't be afraid to change out a lot of tank water and do it weekly if you can. Large, weekly water changes are by far the best, easiest and simplest way to prevent or fix a huge list of tank problems. The water change is safer and easier than measuring and dosing chemicals.

There are a lot of "oldtimers" that said water changes were unnecessay or even bad for keeping fish. I used to think you could simply top off the tank and the fish would be fine. The large regular water change, changed my mind a long time ago. The fact is, your fish tank is an "unflushed" toilet. Your fish do everything in that water. Think about it, if you were living in water you did your "business" in, wouldn't you want most of the water flushed, and flushed often? I would.

I preach large, frequent water changes, because they work. I have several large, planted tanks and change half or more of the tank water every week. I sometimes have to let a tank go two weeks, but then I'll change a little more water. I keep Corydoras, Plecos, Platys, Guppies and Danios. Watch the fish during a large water change, they're in fish heaven.

Change a lot of tank water and do it often. You'll have no tank problems.

B

 

[electromango]

I'll probably use seachem matrix . But since the amount of nitrates are pretty high in my tap, how logical would frequent water changes be? Would they still be necessary? I'm assuming the matrix would bring the nitrates to levels lower than 20ppm, so water changes seem like they would only increase that amount...or is there still a need for PWCs?

 

[electromango]

Thanks for your advice brad, it's much appreciated...could you also offer some advice on my other question above? Thanks

 

[PB_Smith]

Hello again elec and to PB. Don't be afraid to change out a lot of tank water and do it weekly if you can. Large, weekly water changes are by far the best, easiest and simplest way to prevent or fix a huge list of tank problems. The water change is safer and easier than measuring and dosing chemicals.

No, because you are only treating the symptom, not the cause.
In this persons case the cause is the tap water that is compounding the accumulation of nitrate.
So if his water is coming out of the tap at 20 ppm, and they do not have access to RO/DI water, huge frequent water changes aren't the miracle cure, now are they?

There are a lot of "oldtimers" that said water changes were unnecessay or even bad for keeping fish. I used to think you could simply top off the tank and the fish would be fine. The large regular water change, changed my mind a long time ago. The fact is, your fish tank is an "unflushed" toilet. Your fish do verything in that water. Think about it, if you were living in water you did your "business" in, wouldn't you want most of the water flushed, and flushed often? I would.

How utterly ludicrous

I guess you don't understand or comprehend the entire biological aspect of this hobby/science.

honestly, that "toilet: concept you maintain is just plain silly, ill-informed and uneducated.


Like I said, don't drive yourself insane chasing numbers, how are the fish doing?

 

[PB_Smith]

I'll probably use seachem matrix . But since the amount of nitrates are pretty high in my tap, how logical would frequent water changes be? Would they still be necessary? I'm assuming the matrix would bring the nitrates to levels lower than 20ppm, so water changes seem like they would only increase that amount...or is there still a need for PWCs?

There is always the need for PWC's, just not 50% weekly.

The Matrix works by providing internal surface area for the anaerobic bacteria to thrive in the low oxygen environment inside the internal structure of the media. It takes 4-8 weeks for a solid colony to be established. Biologically removing nitrate takes time and patience, but once it takes hold, it should be able to maintain the levels, same as the aerobic bacteria.

Purigen works by removing dissolved organic compounds before they are broken down by the bacteria. Chemi-pure and activated carbon both also remove dissolved organics.

remember the proper order of filtration;
first mechanical
second chemical
third biological

 

[electromango]

Like I said, don't drive yourself insane chasing numbers, how are the fish doing?

My platies, guppies, and honey gourami are doing very well; foraging, swimming, eating, etc..however, if these were the only fish in my tank I would be perfectly content with nitrate readings of up to about 40ppm. My main concern is my blue ram.

If my research was correct, they require very low nitrates and are sensitive to such conditions. He's the only fish in the tank who is pacing back and forth along the back of the tank and up and down the corners. I've had him for about a week and a half. He actively eats flakes everyday and seems to sort of "fight" for his food, but other than that he just does that; pacing, running, etc.

I'm worried about him, but also I plan to keep more fish in the tank (cories and neons), which would exacerbate the nitrate issue even more. As you already know, my tap water already has nitrates too (20+ppm) and my tank about 40ppm.

So I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Hopefully matrix helps bring this nitrate down to a max of 20ppm.

Another question: is the matrix media in a bag or are they individual carbon balls that you place into my power filter?

 

[PB_Smith]

My platies, guppies, and honey gourami are doing very well; foraging, swimming, eating, etc..however, if these were the only fish in my tank I would be perfectly content with nitrate readings of up to about 40ppm. My main concern is my blue ram.

If my research was correct, they require very low nitrates and are sensitive to such conditions. He's the only fish in the tank who is pacing back and forth along the back of the tank and up and down the corners. I've had him for about a week and a half. He actively eats flakes everyday and seems to sort of "fight" for his food, but other than that he just does that; pacing, running, etc.

I'm worried about him, but also I plan to keep more fish in the tank (cories and neons), which would exacerbate the nitrate issue even more. As you already know, my tap water already has nitrates too (20+ppm) and my tank about 40ppm.

So I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Hopefully matrix helps bring this nitrate down to a max of 20ppm.

I wouldn't worry too much about the rams behavior. A lot of fish do that at first until they have settled into the new tank and have established themselves. A week and a half isn't that long.
As long as he is eating good, has clear eyes/fins, etc., then I say he is probably fine.
You should check local supermarkets for the RO/DI water machines, that is where I get mine.

 

[Steve2223]

Nitrates

Even though my bio's are 0 a little rain must fall I don't care where u are water is always moving so I change my tank water about 10percent every two weeks I believe all bodies of water refresh themselves why shouldn't a aquarium as for being 20ppm nitrate out of the tap you have to be more careful in feeding and watch ur overcrowding
After a period of time using matrix and/or purigen ur nitrate is at 20 ppm prior to a bi-monthly water change ur tank is balanced or as best as u can get it if it's below great if it's above lighten up on ur feeding an remove some fish.
It would bother me if my drinking water was showing nitrate to me that would mean that my water was not getting processed correctly or Animal waste was getting in to my water line some how. Granted 20 ppm is not a lot but!!!

 

[electromango]

I decided to do some sleuthing around and test my tap water for nitrates from another source (from a sink that is used very frequently as opposed to infrequently) and have noticed it tested less in nitrates (20ppm max). Although it isn't a significant difference it is still lighter. Thought I'd report that. Makes sense that the water would be cleaner from a higher-traffic source. Still pretty high nitrates though...

 

[enrgizerbunny]

20 ppm from the tap with a tank reading of 40ppm is not much. Don't know about the ram, but if you can add fast growing, nitrate sucking plants out will help. My suggestion of a house plant in a HOB will definitely work to lower them if you have enough light for the plant.

As far as the off topic water change debate is going in here- just because you keep your biological media very clean and free of debris does not mean lower nitrates, it means more clear surface area for BB colony. Removal of the debris from the tank through water changes reduces the amount of waste to be broken down, this slowing the buildup of nitrates.

OP already ruled out hauling RO water, that pretty much leaves plants, anaerobic bacteria/low oxygen nitrate reactor, or a rain barrel. Alternatively- large, frequent water changes could remove the excess nitrates and keep the tank in the 40ppm range instead of the 20 range most shoot for.

I think the simplest/cheapest solution is going to be a combination of plants and water changes for OP.

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[PNWaquarist]

Given that 40 ppm nitrates is the higher end of what's desirable, I'd still do what I could to knock that down to the 25-30 ppm range.

If RO water is not feasible, you may want to buy a couple different brands of bottled water from the grocery store and test the nitrate levels. If they're low enough, you could always mix 2-3 gallons with 2-3 gallons of tap water for your weekly water change. The EPA supposedly regulates bottled water to a maximum of 10 mg/L (10 ppm) nitrates.

Check your Bottled Water for Nitrate and Nitrite Nitrogen | HULIQ

I agree that plants will help as well.

 

[PB_Smith]

As far as the off topic water change debate is going in here- just because you keep your biological media very clean and free of debris does not mean lower nitrates, it means more clear surface area for BB colony. Removal of the debris from the tank through water changes reduces the amount of waste to be broken down, this slowing the buildup of nitrates.

I don't think anyone said anything about clean media = lower nitrates.
What I mentioned was the proper order of the different filtration methodologies usually employed, mechanical, chemical and biological with the intent being to reduce the amount of dissolved organic compounds reaching the biological filter which would then ultimately end up as nitrate.
Of course regular PWC's are part of a maintenance regimen.
My only thing is that, contrary to some opinions, large, frequent water changes are not the cure all for everything.

sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action, especially in a new tank.

Example: I just set up a ten gallon salt water tank to house a rather aggressive pseudochromis that I have. I seeded the filter, etc.
Tested the water two days ago, ammonia ~1.0ppm, nitrite ~.50ppm, nitrate ~20.
So of course I did a 75% water change before everything died, correct?
Nope, I just let it ride and today my test results are 0 0 20.
chances are that if I did a big water change I would still be seeing readings today.
Sometimes you have to let the bacteria do their thing.


Anywho, the way to control nitrate is by
1: proper stocking levels
2: don't overfeed and using high quality food (no bargain bags of flake food cooked up in some guys kitchen)
3: removing excess organic waste via;
partial water changes
mechanical filtration cleaned at least 2-3 times weekly
chemical filtration
4: adequate biological filtration, preferably something with very porous surface and internal surface area as well; Matrix for example
5: plants that utilize nitrate