Few topics I need some help on..Please.

[FinNipper]

I've been in this game for about 3 months now, and I've learned SO much from reading around in this forum. Thank you all!

1. My tank is 3 months old and I really haven't tested the water that much(I now know that's doing things the wrong way ). I had been medicating my tank for a bit(fungus clear, melafix, and quick cure), but now the medication is all gone, the water is crystal clear, but my nitrite level is crazy high(now that I've bought all the necessary tests). I'm pretty sure I've disturbed the biological filtration trying to save one guppy(which died ) in the main tank because I didn't have a hospital tank(which I do now). I think my plecostomous is breathing very rapidly because of my water condition. The ammonia is at about .25-.5 and my nitrates are at 10. A few hours ago, I added 20ml of bio-spira to my 20 gal tank, will my nitrites go down to 0? I don't want my Pleco to die! The rest seem just fine, but I don't want to take any chances here. I've done several 15-25% water changes before adding the bio-spira to get rid of the high nitrite level, but that didn't work, so I'm relying on the bio-spira.

2. My african dwarf frog died a couple of days ago, didn't show any signs of stress, just sat at the bottom of the tank, no movement. Was it my water condition or the salt that I added to the tank? My lfs told me that salt can do a number on frogs. Do I even really need salt unless I'm using it for medication in my hospital tank? Thanks for any advice..

3. Most of my fish "sleep" about a centimeter from the top of the tank..quiet..is that normal? They're not gasping for air or anything, just wondering.

Henri

20 Gallon Tank
Penguin 125 bio-filter (could cleaning all the brown gunk in there affect filtration?)
No live plants
6 Guppies (2 of which are 2 months old)
3 White clouds
3 zebra danios
2 scissortail rasboras
1 Plecostomous (moving around a lot..heavy breathing :? )
1 ghost shrimp...somewhere in there
~84 degrees

 

[azn dreamer]

Do I even really need salt unless I'm using it for medication in my hospital tank?

Depends on your set up. It can be a freshwater setup or saltwater

. Most of my fish "sleep" about a centimeter from the top of the tank..quiet..is that normal?

Perfectly normal...as long as its not gasping for air.

A few hours ago, I added 20ml of bio-spira to my 20 gal tank, will my nitrites go down to 0?

i doubt it. Regular water changes will help. It might be the nitrite spiking...but i wonder why there is still ammonia :?

I think my plecostomous is breathing very rapidly because of my water condition

Yes its because of the water conditions. I think its getting nitrite poisioning

Hope i've helped

 

[azn dreamer]

BTW

My tank is 3 months old

Thats a little odd. It should be cycled by now :|

 

[tkos]

I am confused. You say your nitrates are 10 but that you want nitrites to go down. Your nitrates are nothing to worry about. But any amount of nitrite or ammonia is unacceptable and you should do water changes to get them to 0. Do not worry about water changes affecting your bacteria as they are firmly in place on the rocks and filter media. Your tank is probably recycling because I assume you change your filter media regularly. Don't do this as you loose all the good bacteria eveytime. Just rinse it out in old tank water and put it back in.

A pleco is too much fish for your tank assuming he is a common pleco. He can get to be 24 inches long, and don't think he will just grow to the size of your tank like they say at the fish store.

Don't bother with salt. It can affect scaless critter like frogs in negative ways.

BioSpira is a great product but make sure you keep it refrigerated or it will be no good in a matter of a day.

 

[Madame_X]

Don't bother with salt. It can affect scaless critter like frogs in negative ways.

I've heard salt is bad for plecos for this same reason.

 

[Allivymar]

okey dokey; couple of things:

Your tank is probably cycling again and I agree, its probably due to all those medications kiling your biological filter. Thats the number one thing you have to deal with. Bio-Spira may help, but you need to get that ammonia and nitrite out of the water NOW. Ammonia burns the gills, nitrite competes with oxygen; both suffocate your fish (most probably why your plec is beathing heavy; cause he can't breathe!). There are things which turn ammonia into a non-toxic form, like Amquel, but they don't do anything for nitrites. My suggestion is water change water change water change! To hell with your biological filter atm; get those toxins out of the water; I'd do a 50% change right now. Then retest your water and see what the levels are. You'll probably have to do more changes in the ensuing days; keep checking levels each day. If theres ammonia and/or nitrites? Water change.

The salt thing is controversal. I don't know about the frog, never having one, but I did research on the salt/catfish thing and can't find anything to back up the "salt is bad for cats" idea. I did find a number of scientific studies which used salt to treat nitrite poisoning in cats tho! Apparently the chloride competes with the nitrites in the gills. Personally, because of all the concern with cats n salt, I'd water change instead. But if anyone is interested in those studies, let me know; I have em bookmarked.

Lastly, as you are discovering, crystal clear water doesn't mean good water for fish. Those tests are your key to keeping the tank water a good place for fish to live; keep on using em!

 

[reberly]

Wait, I'm confused. FinNipper has a Penguin filter with a bio-wheel... I thought the bactera grew on the bio-wheel, meaning you can change the filter cartridge without affecting bacteria levels? Also, if you vacuum the gravel, doesn't that seriously affect bacteria?

Ryan

 

[TankGirl]

Gravel vacuuming should not impact the bacterial colony. The Biowheel helps a lot but if you kill your bacterial colony with meds it will not preven the tank from going through a mini-cycle.

 

[Allivymar]

The whole point behind the bio-wheel is to provide a large surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to inhabit. They don't JUST live there; they are on every surface in the tank, but since its such a large area and can hold so much bacteria, you can change filters, completely gravel vac, without canning your entire biological filter.

But, as TankGirl said, all the surface area in the world makes no diff if the bacteria aren't there. Quick cure has been known to kill off the nitrifying bacteria; Melafix won't and I don't know about the Fungus Clear.

On another note, now that I think about it, it may be the meds themselves that affected the plec. Most meds (except for antibiotics) are poison based, like ich meds. Those scaleless fish absorb WAY too much of the poisons and it it detrimental to their health. Quick Cure, if I'm correct, contains Malachite Green. At full doses it can kill the scaleless fish as well as parasites. How did you treat the fish FinNipper? Those water changes may be even more necessary then I previously mentioned, as you may need to get all the meds completely out of the water. A fresh carbon filter will help too.

 

[FinNipper]

I'm sure all of the meds are gone by now, because I've done many water changes and I did put in a new filter media a week ago. I only used a half dosage of quick cure because of the pleco and he wasn't breathing so heavily durring the medication. If I do water changes right now, will that get rid of the bio-spira, because it says not to use ammonia removing agents like aquaclear, which is what I use. All the other fish seem healthy and playing around, but yeah, I know not to take any chances. That bio-spira stuff is expensive and I thought it would deal with my nitrite problem. It hasn't been 24 hours yet since I used it, so I'll wait ti'll this evening, test the water, and if nothing has changed, I'll do a big water change. Thank you so much for all the help everyone, I'll keep you updated on the pleco and water quality.

 

[Jack]

I don't know where the "salt bad for cats" came from. I've caught catfish in very brackish water (within site of the Gulf of Mexico). Furthermore, there are saltwater catfish. The "scaleless" thing makes no sense either. Many saltwater species (like puffers) are scaleless. Admittedly, I can't speak for frogs as I've never owned or researched.

 

[TankGirl]

If you have an established tank, the Bio-Spira will not work as quickly as it does when you have a completely new tank and put it in with the new fish. In an established tank it has to play catchup, but it should definitely work. Give it a couple of days. Do small water changes to keep your toxic levels low, as Bio-Spira or not, that is the thing that will harm your fish.Good luck - it sounds like you are doing all the right things here.

 

[Allivymar]

Coolio! Many people don't realise full doses of some meds are dangerous; glad to see you caught that.

OK, couple MORE things LOL

AS TankGirl said, Bio-Spira isn't made to play catch up. Its to add WITH the fish into fresh water with no ammonia/nitrites in it. Then it can build up a larger bacterial colony along with the fish waste that rises slowly. It may not take care of your nitrite problem; if it does, it will be very slow as TankGirl mentioned. The big issue here is, change the water and dilute the toxins (and the Bio-Spira)? Or chance the Bio-Spira kicking in quickly enough to keep the fish from possibly suffocating? Its a tough call; I know the Bio-Spira is expensive.

Also, you said you changed the filter media. Just the carbon? Or the floss/sponge/whatever is in there? If it was only the carbon, no prob. If it was the filter media, that too might explain the ammonia/nitrite spikes as a large chunk of your bacterial colony was probably living on it.

Definitely keep us updated! I'm pulling for your plec

 

[FinNipper]

Thanks TankGirl and Allivymar for setting me straight on how the bio-spira works on established tanks. This evening(24 hours after pouring in the bio-spira) my ammonia is still at .5 and my nitrites are at 1.6..nothing changed. So I did another 25% water change just an hour ago, then checked the water again..nothing has changed. I've started feeding my fish only once a day now. I don't know why this is happening..is it the medication that I used 2 weeks ago? a few days ago, I cleaned out all the brown gunk from the actual filter..not the media..and it was really dirty. When I did change the filter media though, about a week ago, I changed the whole thing because that's what I was told to do, but now I'll just rip off the floss part and keep it in there for a week with the new media. I'm cleaning the media now in old tank water when I do my water changes. Do I wait and see if the bio-spira is still doing it's thing? More water changes? This is really frustrating because I don't want to lose any fish and my pleco is still breathing heavily. I like the fact that I'm learning a lot from this..just not cool that the fish are suffering because of it..Thanks again everyone for the help..I'll keep you all updated if anything changes! If you guys want to know what you're helping me with, check my gallery :|

 

[FinNipper]

I went ahead just now and poured in the rest of the bio-spira, 8ml of it, can't hurt right? 8O

 

[Allivymar]

Oh what a cute tank! LOL You're so color coordinated LOL

In my totally unscientific opinion LOL I'm guessing the meds killed your original bacterial colony. It prob started growing again, but lost ground when you changed the entire filter. The Bio-Spira will help, but slowly (and no, won't hurt to dump it all in). Best thing to do, if you HAVE to clean the filter, is just to rinse it in tank water. Tap water will most probably kill the bacteria colonizing the filter cause it usually has chlorine/chloramine. It sorta sounds like your doing that, so keep with it, at least till everything settles.

I'd keep testing, and if ammonia/nitrites show up, water change. It'll mean the tank takes longer to re-cycle, but heck. Live fish are more important

 

[FinNipper]

Thanks for the tank complement!

Guess I'll just wait and see what the bio-spira is gonna do while changing 25% of the water each day if the levels stay the same. Something I don't get, why didn't the levels go down a bit when I did a water change? I made many mistakes with the filtration I know. No more cleaning the media with tap water.

One more thing, in the future, if I need to medicate, how do I store the filter media when it's out? The sponge and carbon are all one piece, so I just can't leave the sponge in. Thank you

 

[Allivymar]

2 things there...one I can answer, one i can't LOL

If you cut the sponge, you'll be able to pull out the carbon. Lots of peeps do that.

The "where to put the media so you have some with bacteria after medicating" is something I can't figure out. Even if you have other tanks to keep it in, would you want to put something from a sick tank into a healthy one? If you don't where do you put it? And it WOULD be from an unhealthy tank; would you want to put it back in? Yeah, I get stuck on things like this LOL this one escapes me. Maybe someone will have a better answer to that one.

 

[FinNipper]

LOL So I'll just rip off the sponge part and leave it in there if I ever need to..hope I don't have to medicate anytime soon.

 

[TankGirl]

Here is where a hospital tank comes in handy! If you have a fish that needs treatment (in your case, the guppy) you pop it in there and do your meds treatment, with daily water changes, so there is no need to have the hosp. tank "cycled" and once the fish is well you take down the hospital tank and sterilize it. That way your community tank is spared the trauma of meds. Many plants do not tolerate the meds, either. I think you are on the right track, and continue your water changes to keep the levels down. It will be frustrating to wait, but you will get there.