Quick cycle?

[lonksenopa]

Theoretically how fast can a tank cycle? I was gifted a small 10 gallon tank for my birthday and loaded it with plants from an established tank from my LFS. I also took gravel out of my established tank to put into my sponge filter. As of today I had a nitrite reading of 5.0ppm and 0 for ammonia and 10ppm for nitrate. I didn't a water change and dropped nitrite to .25ppm. I figured the cycle is already starting but I didn't think it would happen so fast. Usually I know it takes 2-6 weeks but it feels like the process has been moving crazy fast since I started the tank. Is there any possibility it's ready before the 2 week mark? I added a picture of the tank for reference

 

[Andy Sager]

Theoretically how fast can a tank cycle? I was gifted a small 10 gallon tank for my birthday and loaded it with plants from an established tank from my LFS. I also took gravel out of my established tank to put into my sponge filter. As of today I had a nitrite reading of 5.0ppm and 0 for ammonia and 10ppm for nitrate. I didn't a water change and dropped nitrite to .25ppm. I figured the cycle is already starting but I didn't think it would happen so fast. Usually I know it takes 2-6 weeks but it feels like the process has been moving crazy fast since I started the tank. Is there any possibility it's ready before the 2 week mark? I added a picture of the tank for reference

You can actually instantaneously cycle a tank by just adding the nitrifying microbes. You would then be " cycled " for the amount of ammonia and nitrite it can convert in under 24 hours. What you need to understand is that the " Cycle" is not a thing, it's a process. The process of creating a filter bed ( a.k.a. Biological filter) containing the nitrifying microbes within your aquarium system is called Cycling. If you were doing this " Fish in" style, when you have finished creating the biological filter bed, your tank is " cycled" for the amount of fish you have in the tank at that moment. So you can have a tank that's cycled for 1 fish or 20 fish or 100 fish. The only difference between these three things is the size of the biological filter bed. The good news is that the biological filter bed grows and shrinks all based on the amount of ammonia production in the tank. The better news is that it grows rather quickly but you also have to understand that it can be overwhelmed easily as well. Adding too many ammonia producers too quickly will cause the tank to " cycle" again and is completed when the ammonia and nitrite are both zero again. If you look at this picture, you can see how the cycling process looks as it's happening.
You see how there is no nitrite or nitrate when the ammonia level starts to rise. There's no nitrate until until after there is a rise in nitrite. Nitrate keeps climbing as Ammonia and Nitrite drop to zero. So in your case, unless you are getting nitrate in your source water, your numbers say that it's in the middle( ish) of your nitrite cycle.
So the bottom line is that you added both microbes when you added some gravel and plants from your established tank. That's why things are going quickly. ( Had you not have added them, the process is much, much, MUCH slower. ) The bad news is that you did not add enough microbes to balance out the amount of ammonia/ nitrite production so you are seeing ammonia and nitrite on your tests. So once you are back to zero ammonia and zero nitrite, you will be "cycled " for just the amount of living things producing ammonia at that time.
Hope this better explains things.

 

[Aiken Drum]

You havent said where the ammonia is coming from. Is this a fish in cycle, where the fish is an ammonia source? Or is it a fishless cycle, where you are artificially adding an ammonia source, for example ammonium chloride, straight up ammonia, or fish food.

I cant see any fish in the photo, but there does look to be a soil based substrate, which would release some ammonia at first, but not necessarily enough to cycle a tank.

If you are doing a fishless cycle, as your ammonia is now zero you need to add some more ammonia, and the water change wasnt needed as you removed nitrite which is essential to get the cycling process going.

 

[lonksenopa]

You havent said where the ammonia is coming from. Is this a fish in cycle, where the fish is an ammonia source? Or is it a fishless cycle, where you are artificially adding an ammonia source, for example ammonium chloride, straight up ammonia, or fish food.

I cant see any fish in the photo, but there does look to be a soil based substrate, which would release some ammonia at first, but not necessarily enough to cycle a tank.

If you are doing a fishless cycle, as your ammonia is now zero you need to add some more ammonia, and the water change wasnt needed as you removed nitrite which is essential to get the cycling process going.

I've been adding ammonia in the way of fish food

 

[Aiken Drum]

Problem with fish food is its difficult to know how much food to add to add enough ammonia.

Ghost feeding entails adding as much food as you would feed a stocked tank every day. If you are only adding a small pinch every now and again, that may not be enough.

When you are adding this much food daily, and seeing zero ammonia and nitrite in your testing you are cycled. Over the course of several weeks, thats a lot of fish food going in the water, that will go mouldy etc. Fish food is a really poor way to add ammonia IMO.

 

[Andy Sager]

I've been adding ammonia in the way of fish food

Just an FYI, fish food is not the best ammonia source as it's also adding phosphates as well as literally polluting the water. Fish urine at least would have processed the " other stuff" and then there is straight ammonia that can be had from stores like the local grocery and dollar stores. With those, you just want pure ammonia with no additives or perfumes. Then there are items such as Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride. So many better choices than fish food.

 

[lonksenopa]

Problem with fish food is its difficult to know how much food to add to add enough ammonia.

Ghost feeding entails adding as much food as you would feed a stocked tank every day. If you are only adding a small pinch every now and again, that may not be enough.

When you are adding this much food daily, and seeing zero ammonia and nitrite in your testing you are cycled. Over the course of several weeks, thats a lot of fish food going in the water, that will go mouldy etc. Fish food is a really poor way to add ammonia IMO.

I've used it before I just didn't have any on me as it's been so long since I've cycled a tank. As for a fish in cycle I've never tried it before because I was always afraid of harming the fish. What's the safest way to go about that?

 

[Aiken Drum]

To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.
A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.
Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.
You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.
If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.
Feed lightly to start with. Daily as much as is eaten in 2 minutes, or as much as is eaten in 3 minutes every 2 days. You can increase to full feedings if you are confident your parameters aren’t getting too elevated too quickly and water changes don’t become a daily thing.
Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.
Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.
If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.
Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.
Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.
Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.
You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.
A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.
A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.
Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.

 

[Andy Sager]

Problem with fish food is its difficult to know how much food to add to add enough ammonia.

Ghost feeding entails adding as much food as you would feed a stocked tank every day. If you are only adding a small pinch every now and again, that may not be enough.

When you are adding this much food daily, and seeing zero ammonia and nitrite in your testing you are cycled. Over the course of several weeks, thats a lot of fish food going in the water, that will go mouldy etc. Fish food is a really poor way to add ammonia IMO.

Great minds... You just have faster typing fingers. LOL

 

[Andy Sager]

I've used it before I just didn't have any on me as it's been so long since I've cycled a tank. As for a fish in cycle I've never tried it before because I was always afraid of harming the fish. What's the safest way to go about that?

"Fish in" cycling was the only way " back in the day" so it's very doable. The key is to not add fragile fish but use hardy fish that can handle the poorer water quality. Read through Aiken's post ( above) for how to do it safely.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Great minds... You just have faster typing fingers. LOL

Cut and paste is your friend. I did a bit of a flow chart that can be just added as an image a while back. I might see if i can find it.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Not sure if this is easier to follow. Any comments?

 

[lonksenopa]

Not sure if this is easier to follow. Any comments?
View attachment 389754

Wow I thought I had a pretty decent grasp on cycling. That's extremely helpful! What kind of fish would you suggest for a fish in cycle? Or maybe I should just use a different form of ammonia and finish the cycle without fish?

 

[Aiken Drum]

If it were me, i would just get some ammonium chloride, Dr Tims that Andy suggests is what i use, and finish off a fishless cycle. Dr Tims is fairly cheap, easy to calculate the dosage (4 drops/ gallon raises ammonia by 2ppm), and there is no chance of accidently buying the wrong ammonia and contaminating the aquarium.

But if you wanted to get fish and go fish in, thats a perfectly acceptable way to do it also. The only time i would say you should 100% go fishless is if you have a very high pH, because ammonia is more toxic at higher pH, and a fishless cycle is then more risky. But, nitrite is more toxic at lower pH, so swings and roundabouts.

Im not one for saying you must use this fish or that fish to cycle a tank, i would prefer to buy fish that you plan on keeping long term, and making sure you cycle the tank in such a way that water parameters dont become toxic. But livebearers are quite hardy fish, zebra danios are commonly used (but wouldnt suit your 10g). What are you planning on stocking the tank with?

Either way, fish in or fishless, you arent starting from scratch, so it should be a quicker and easier process than most.

And to go back to your original query. The last time i cycled a tank, i used some filter media from an established aquarium, and i cycled it in 3 weeks. As Andy said, i could have cycled it pretty much instantly if i had taken enough filter media from an established filter. I think i had about a handful of established filter media going into the filtration of a 60 litre aquarium.

 

[lonksenopa]

If it were me, i would just get some ammonium chloride, Dr Tims that Andy suggests is what i use, and finish off a fishless cycle. Dr Tims is fairly cheap, easy to calculate the dosage (4 drops/ gallon raises ammonia by 2ppm), and there is no chance of accidently buying the wrong ammonia and contaminating the aquarium.

But if you wanted to get fish and go fish in, thats a perfectly acceptable way to do it also. The only time i would say you should 100% go fishless is if you have a very high pH, because ammonia is more toxic at higher pH, and a fishless cycle is then more risky. But, nitrite is more toxic at lower pH, so swings and roundabouts.

Im not one for saying you must use this fish or that fish to cycle a tank, i would prefer to buy fish that you plan on keeping long term, and making sure you cycle the tank in such a way that water parameters dont become toxic. But livebearers are quite hardy fish, zebra danios are commonly used (but wouldnt suit your 10g). What are you planning on stocking the tank with?

Either way, fish in or fishless, you arent starting from scratch, so it should be a quicker and easier process than most.

And to go back to your original query. The last time i cycled a tank, i used some filter media from an established aquarium, and i cycled it in 3 weeks. As Andy said, i could have cycled it pretty much instantly if i had taken enough filter media from an established filter. I think i had about a handful of established filter media going into the filtration of a 60 litre aquarium.

Yeah I used quite a bit of filter media and gravel from my established tank so I figured that's why I noticed it cycling rather quickly. As for stocking I'm not quite sure yet. Any suggestions? I've heard people say chili rasboras were a good option because they stay rather small. All of my other tanks are rather large so I wasn't sure how to go about stocking something this small

 

[Aiken Drum]

Im really liking guppies at the moment, and they keep the wife happy because they are shiny. They would do well in 10g. Chili rasboras would do well too.

I also really like galaxy rasboras/ celestial pearl danios for that size tank. Ive not had much luck with them though so decided to stop keeping them. But now ive decided to stop keeping them, the ones i still have appear to be doing much better.

Or how about a shrimp tank?

 

[lonksenopa]

Im really liking guppies at the moment, and they keep the wife happy because they are shiny. They would do well in 10g. Chili rasboras would do well too.

I also really like galaxy rasboras/ celestial pearl danios for that size tank. Ive not had much luck with them though so decided to stop keeping them. But now ive decided to stop keeping them, the ones i still have appear to be doing much better.

Or how about a shrimp tank?

I was thinking about shrimp but I've had TERRIBLE luck with shrimp and they're pretty expensive at my LFS. How many chili rasbora would be a good amount without over stocking? Or if you had any shrimp tips lol. I used to have them but after about a week they would vanish or would have a lot of trouble molting

 

[Aiken Drum]

I would stick to 10 to 12 rasboras.

Im no shrimp expert. I just chuck half a dozen in there, and 2 or 3 months later there will be dozens of them, and then 100s. I wish i could sell them for the same price my LFS sells them. My LFS sells red cherry shrimp at £6 each. At that price, i probably have £1000 worth now.

 

[lonksenopa]

I would stick to 10 to 12 rasboras.

Im no shrimp expert. I just chuck half a dozen in there, and 2 or 3 months later there will be dozens of them, and then 100s. I wish i could sell them for the same price my LFS sells them. My LFS sells red cherry shrimp at £6 each. At that price, i probably have £1000 worth now.

Really? That many rasboras? That's awesome I didn't realize you could put that many in a 10 gallon