May have found a good use for "bacteria in a bottle"

[blert]

I've been trying for a while now to find an alternative to my tap water, other than RO/DI, to no avail. Just for the heck of it, I grabbed a bottle of bacterial "starter fluid" called Microbe-Lift Special Blend that says it also "biologically reduces nitrates". My tap water, after Prime, has specs of .5-1 ammonia, .25-.5 nitrite and 10-20 nitrate. As an experiment I dosed my tap water with this stuff and the next morning the specs were at 0,0,5-ish. Interesting enough to me to run the experiment again tonight with the 15 gallons I have prepped tonight for the morning's PWC.

 

[NoMoreGoldFish]

Interesting experiment, but using that to pre-treat your water for PWCs can be kinda expensive, no?

 

[MonsterfishGuy]

Look his tap water... Its less expensive than replacing dead fish...

 

[jlk]

So your tap has has those readings? Is it city or well water? If its city, i would call your supplier & explain your readings to them. They will send someone out to take samples of your water and do further testing (doesnt cost you anything). You can also call the EPA's safe drinking water hotline for further information.

 

[blert]

This morning's test results:
Not BIB dosed: 1,1,10
BIB dosed: .5,0,<5

I'd say the experiment is a success. Going to sort my laundry and test it again in a couple of hours to see if the ammonia has come down some more. Only thing I'm worried about is putting the "left over" bottle bacteria into my tank with the water change. Don't think it will be a big deal though as the tank is well established now and the extra bacteria should die off without much effect. It may even help as the bottle says it is a sludge reducer, may make vacuuming easier.
It's only about four bucks a bottle (4oz) so it's not really that expensive. Much cheaper than re-mineralized RO/DI.

 

[meegosh]

Have you tried the same experiment with a control group? Ie, just let the water sit out, maybe with a power head running, overnight and then test?

 

[blert]

So your tap has has those readings? Is it city or well water? If its city, i would call your supplier & explain your readings to them. They will send someone out to take samples of your water and do further testing (doesnt cost you anything). You can also call the EPA's safe drinking water hotline for further information.

Yeah, it fluctuates wildly too. One day it may be at .5,.5,10 and the next as high as 1,1,20. I've even had an ammonia reading as high as 2 before. I live in a city that has notoriously funky tap water. I won't ever let my kids drink it. Maybe I will call the city out and have them test it as you suggested. Seriously doubt anything would come of it though but who knows. The EPA won't do squat though as it is still under their recommended parameters.

 

[LyndaB]

Look his tap water... Its less expensive than replacing dead fish...

Those readings were after Prime..... we don't have the readings straight from the tap.

 

[blert]

Have you tried the same experiment with a control group? Ie, just let the water sit out, maybe with a power head running, overnight and then test?

Did try that last time, no power head running, and all readings went up. Next week I'll run the experiment again with a non-BIB treated control sample and I'll post the results if anyone is interested.

 

[blert]

Those readings were after Prime..... we don't have the readings straight from the tap.

Yes, tests done after Prime. No real point to test straight from the tap as once the Prime breaks the chloramine bond more ammonia is produced.

 

[LyndaB]

Although it could be interesting to see what your tap readings are.

 

[blert]

Although it could be interesting to see what your tap readings are.

K will do. Next week's test will roll as so...
Pre-test straight out of tap.
Pre-test after adding Prime.
Sample one: Untreated.
Sample two: Prime treated.
Sample three: BIB treated.
Sample four: Prime plus BIB treated.

Does that cover all the bases? Though I think the chlorine will kill off the bacteria in sample three but I will roll with it anyway.
May need to refill my test kit after this.

 

[eco23]

Personally I don't see any real concern with the tap water for aquaria use. The small amounts of ammonia and nitrIte will be consumed by the bio-filter within hours assuming the tank is cycled, and if you're using Prime those compounds are neutralized during that time anyway, so it's a moot point for that small window. Yeah, it sucks to have 10-20ppm no3 from the tap...but that's well within the safe range for virtually every tropical fish besides the most sensitive species. I'd just have a healthy pwc routine so you're not trying to reduce high levels of nitrAte with water which already contains some. Using a product like Seachem Purigen, or having a planted tank will also control the nitrAte.

 

[blert]

Yeah, I'm not worried about the ammonia or nitrites out of the tap other than it just adds more stuff to convert to nitrates. It's the nitrates that bug me, they are too high to bring down the levels it the tank by a decent amount. I do PWCs every Tuesday unless test show I need to do one sooner. I was testing everyday while the GBRs were adjusting, now I test twice a week and will bring that down to once a week when I get my tap water situation worked out. When I test on Tuesday nitrates are usually at almost 40. Safe, yes, but I like them lower as GBRs are kinda sensitive to water conditions. Replacing 50% water at 40 with water at 20 is not helpful. I would rather spend a few bucks making better water then doing two 50% PWCs just to bring nitrates down to 20. Maybe I'm being a bit anal about it all but that's just me. If it wasn't for that fact that buying RO/DI water from the LFS is so expensive I would just go with that and mineral additive.

I'm not really interested in planting the tank as it seems to be a lot more work. I'm also using a Fluval Nano internal filter filled with Clearmax.

 

[eco23]

Yeah, I'm not worried about the ammonia or nitrites out of the tap other than it just adds more stuff to convert to nitrates. It's the nitrates that bug me, they are too high to bring down the levels it the tank by a decent amount. I do PWCs every Tuesday unless test show I need to do one sooner. I was testing everyday while the GBRs were adjusting, now I test twice a week and will bring that down to once a week when I get my tap water situation worked out. When I test on Tuesday nitrates are usually at almost 40. Safe, yes, but I like them lower as GBRs are kinda sensitive to water conditions. Replacing 50% water at 40 with water at 20 is not helpful. I would rather spend a few bucks making better water then doing two 50% PWCs just to bring nitrates down to 20. Maybe I'm being a bit anal about it all but that's just me. If it wasn't for that fact that buying RO/DI water from the LFS is so expensive I would just go with that and mineral additive.

I'm not really interested in planting the tank as it seems to be a lot more work. I'm also using a Fluval Nano internal filter filled with Clearmax.

Yeah, GBR's are one of the few fish I'd be nervous about keeping in that no3 level. I think you've got a neat idea, but I couldn't justify the long term cost. In the long run it'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to buy your own RO system and just cut it with your tap water. Plants really aren't hard to maintain unless you get into high lighting, co2 and all that stuff. There's tons of plants which will grow under stock lighting and are very little maintenance. They really do a ton to absorb the no3. I've got a well stocked 46 gallon that has a lot of fish in it...and since the tank is moderately planted I only see hints of nitrAte.

 

[blert]

Yeah, GBR's are one of the few fish I'd be nervous about keeping in that no3 level. I think you've got a neat idea, but I couldn't justify the long term cost. In the long run it'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to buy your own RO system and just cut it with your tap water. Plants really aren't hard to maintain unless you get into high lighting, co2 and all that stuff. There's tons of plants which will grow under stock lighting and are very little maintenance. They really do a ton to absorb the no3. I've got a well stocked 46 gallon that has a lot of fish in it...and since the tank is moderately planted I only see hints of nitrAte.

Well let's see here. I've actually been wanting to change my gravel to black sand as, from the pics I've seen on this forum, it just looks amazing. That would, for me, be step one for planting my tank. My hood has 45 LEDs for lighting, though four of them are blue for "moonlight". The tank is 22" deep (deep as in depth not front to back). Would that be enough light? I not interested in building a heat producing monster, that position is already filled by my PC.

As for buying an RO/DI system... It's very wasteful and costs more than initial cost output. Without sufficient pressure your looking at 3:1 waste issue. Three gallons wasted for every one gallon produced. Tap water is expensive too. With a pump added for pressure your still looking at, at best, a 1:1 waste ratio.

 

[eco23]

Well let's see here. I've actually been wanting to change my gravel to black sand as, from the pics I've seen on this forum, it just looks amazing. That would, for me, be step one for planting my tank. My hood has 45 LEDs for lighting, though four of them are blue for "moonlight". The tank is 22" deep (deep as in depth not front to back). Would that be enough light? I not interested in building a heat producing monster, that position is already filled by my PC.

As for buying an RO/DI system... It's very wasteful and costs more than initial cost output. Without sufficient pressure your looking at 3:1 waste issue. Three gallons wasted for every one gallon produced. Tap water is expensive too. With a pump added for pressure your still looking at, at best, a 1:1 waste ratio.

I run a water purification company, so I'm pretty familiar with RO units, but not necessarily the ones designed for home aquaria.

You'll have to do the math. I'm not sure how much the microbe-lift costs (looks like $6 average online), so you'll just need to do a long term cost analysis and see how it stacks up.

I'm not sure how the LED's compare. I run duel T-5 HO's on my planted tank. There's still plenty of options on what plants you can grow based on lighting requirements. I'm sure you can find a chart online which will sum up how your LED's compare to normal bulbs.

Here's a good resource on plants based on lighting-
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php

 

[blert]

Ok new test started.

I only had three one gallon jugs available (forth one got a hole in it somehow) so I left out the non-Prime BIB treated sample as the chlorine and chloramines are going to kill anything useful anyway. So here goes...

All samples poured from the same five gallon jug filled straight from the tap.

Oct 24. 7:40 pm

Tap
PH: 8.2
Amm: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

Prime
PH: 8.0
Amm: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

Ok, so, in about ten minutes (about the time it takes me to do one round of tests) the PH dropped by 0.2. Chalk this up to the Prime or to "margin of error"?

In that same amount of time ammonia dropped by 0.5 while everything else stayed the same. Prime is not supposed to effect your readings so where did this ammonia go? And before you ask, yes, I did do the test correctly. Could this have a relation to the drop in PH?

More tomorrow evening after the water has a good day's sit and I get back from the hospital.

 

[meegosh]

I would be tempted to chalk that .2 drop in pH up to degassing. I'm not sure how long it actually takes to drop but I know when testing tap water samples 24 hours later, you usually see a large drop in pH.

 

[blert]

Yesterday - Oct 24. 7:40 pm

Tap
PH: 8.2
Amm: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

Prime
PH: 8.0
Amm: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

Today - Oct 25. 7:45pm

Tap
PH: off chart - high
High PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 1.0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
No change from yesterday other than PH came down by 0.2.

Prime
PH: 7.6
High PH: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: .25 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Only change since yesterday was the development of nitrites from the missing ammonia and a drop in PH.

Prime + BIB
PH: 7.2
High PH: off chart - low
Ammonia: 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: less than .25 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
No difference from Prime only save a 0.2 drop in PH.

Well, no science experiment is ever a failure (even half-assed garage science ) but I did not get the results I was looking for. Basically it looks like the BIB did absolutely nothing. The tests came out the same as just using Prime alone. Maybe I needed to does more than I did (2ml in the gallon) but if I have to dose more than that it becomes very expensive. Oh well, let this be a lesson to me... There is no good use for "bacteria in a bottle".

I'm just going to plant this tank low-tech and let the plants deal with the nitrates. After this tank is planted I'm going to set up my spare ten gallon as a nano reef so I may just treat myself to a RO/DI system for Christmas. So Eco23, we may need to talk about that since you sell them. Send me a link to your website, email me a brochure or whatever. I should be in the market soon.