Oxygenation

[Hoovercat]

Since you don't want surface disturbance in a planted tank re. co2 outgassing how do you insure the oxygenation necessary for your fishes?

 

[greenmaji]

you dont what surface disturbance in a CO2 injected tank, you do what surface disturbance in a non CO2 injected tank.. The plants produce the O2 that your fish need when your injecting CO2..

 

[Hoovercat]

How can you be sure the plants are creating a high enough o2 level without visible pearling? I am running mechanical co2 injection at 28ppm by last night's tests.

 

[greenmaji]

Can you tell by looking at your fish, there are visable signs that a fish isnt getting enought O2.. I wouldnt worry about it unless I could see that the fish are having O2 problems.. By the way.. I dont airate my fish-only tanks and have had no problems with O2.. The filtration adds enough O2 normaly.. Do you have a canister filter?

 

[Hoovercat]

Usually you would have fish at the surface "gasping" right? I've had bad luck lately with rummynose tetras (first petstore all 5 died in 2 days, second petstore 1 has died after 2 days) but my Mollies always suck at the surface. My rainbows never do though.

 

[greenmaji]

Are you QT the new fish?

 

[Hoovercat]

No, I don't have a QT tank. They get acclimated in the bag with tank water added every 15 min. for 45 and then netted into the tank. PH 7.2, 11dkh, 0amm., 10ppm nitrate.

 

[greenmaji]

O2 should not be the problem with a well planted tank.. How much light do you have, how big is your tank.. Do you test for PO4? I personaly think that QT ing the new fish would help alot..

 

[rubysoho]

QTing doesn't prevent fish from dieing, it prevents your other fish from getting sick. So no amount of QT would have saved those rummynose tetras. Infact, it would be better not to QT a rummynosed tetra because tey are so sensative and in QT you never have a cycled tank.

Hoovercat, do you have tests for pH, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite? Those tetras can be pretty delicate when you first get them and any amount of toxins could kill them. Depending on the size of your tank, it could have re-cycled when you added 5 of those tetras which put enough stress on them to kill them. Another thing could be that you just got a bad batch which I've seen happen with tetras and cories. I've been lucky with my rummynosed tetras though.

Back to the O2 issue, You can always add an airstone to a tank to help and depending on the size, they won't disrupt the surface too much. However, I don't think O2 is your problem.

 

[Hoovercat]

Well, Green it's a 55 gal up and running about a month. It's fairly heavily planted with cabomba, java moss,baby tears, green foxtail, couple red crypts, and some dwarf hairgrass. I've got 2x55 ahsupply kits at 6500k. I'm running pressurised CO2 through a bell diffuser. The PO4 kit is in the works see my other post. I'm pretty sure the fish were just weak/stressed but I'm still new and haven't kept rummynose before. FWIW my ottocats seem happy in there so I think my water quality is good. I change 50% every week or less and never saw an ammonia spike since setting up this tank.

 

[rubysoho]

definatly sounds like you had a weak batch of rummynosed tetras in. Next time try to wait and watch the group for a few days before you buy any. That, I think, has been my success to keeping this species. Anyway, you will have enough O2 for those fish, no worries there.

Rainbows are more active than mollies and would need more oxygen (at least logically they would) so I would think you are in the clear there because you'd see them slowing down, breathing heavily and going to the surface for air.

 

[greenmaji]

Infact, it would be better not to QT a rummynosed tetra because tey are so sensative and in QT you never have a cycled tank.

NEVER! I wouldnt say that.. you can keep your qt cycled at all times.. you just need to keep a seeded filter ready at all times.. sponge filters are great for this purpose.. I would say that the acclimation procedure could use a little refining .. the drip method with a little prime would do better then the float the bag and add some water then scoop method.. But waiting to buy the fish at the store.. waiting until the store can keep them alive for a while is the best policy, I do agree.. You are probably getting weak fish..

 

[rubysoho]

well yeh, you are right about that. But most people use meds in QT so it kills off all the good stuff anyway. I floated all my rummynosed tetras over a period of 45 minutes where the first 25 were just getting the temp even and then every five minutes after that I added a random bit of water. Have only lost 3 so far *knock on wood because I added two more today*

 

[greenmaji]

do you have Cabomba caroliniana or Cabomba piauhyensis? The red one, Cabomba piauhyensis, needs more light intencity then you have. there is about 18 kinds of crypts, so im not sure if yours needs more light or not.. What Im getting at is just make sure you dont have any high light plants in there.. Otherwise your fine as far as O2 is conserned.. your CO2 levels are pretty good but the caculator can be off by up to 10% and your just on the edge of 20ppm.. your in the range of 18.72-22.88 ppm to be on the safe side you might want to increse the output just a little to make sure you are over the 20ppm mark.. At a PH of 7.1 and a KH of 11 the lowest your CO2 could be is 23.58.. and as high as 28.82!

 

[greenmaji]

well yeh, you are right about that. But most people use meds in QT so it kills off all the good stuff anyway. I floated all my rummynosed tetras over a period of 45 minutes where the first 25 were just getting the temp even and then every five minutes after that I added a random bit of water. Have only lost 3 so far *knock on wood because I added two more today*

A QT isnt a hospital tank but I do know that people use meds during the QT process if the fish happen to get pop-eye during the waiting period.. I would heat treat new fish for ick in a QT but I wouldnt use meds unless some kind of fungus or parasite showed up in that case it would be time to call the petstore for a refund or new fish.. and if thats not an option alot of big water changes will keep the QT's water parameters in balance..

And when acclimating sensitive fish I would go with the drip method.. using a smooth round container and running a piece of airline tubing from your tank with a knot in it to let out only a drip or two a second.. putting just a little prime or other ammonia binding water treatment into the bag water and let the water drip for about 45 min then netting the fish out of the bucket and putting them into the tank.

 

[Hoovercat]

The cabomba is cabomba carolina and the crypts are red cryptocorne wendtii. I probably should have asked about the rummys as I didn't know how sensitive they are.

 

[greenmaji]

seems like those two are ok but you might want to double check some of the others..
www.tropica.dk/plants.htm
I know the java is fine but I dont know some of the other plants well enough to look them up by there scientific names.. there is some common names but its kinda mixed..
Hope this helps..
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php
is another good sorce for finding info on plants needs as well!

 

[greenmaji]

By the way.. if new fish have the slightest inkling of fungus or a parasite it will show up in no time when heat treating for ich.. if your store has a good return policy I would really look into getting a QT started so that you can avoid getting new sick fish from the store.. JMHO though..