Plz help me plan a 450 gallon

[Samper]

Hey guys I'm new here but not to the aquarium world. I've been keeping reef tanks for a few years now and currently have around 300 gallons of reef aquaria. I just started a new job and got to chattin with my boss. He has a large boat showroom and wants to hire me to set up a large FW display in his showroom. I have $4500 on a master card to spend on the aquarium and everything to run it and a seperate spending allowance for livestock. I'm thinking a 450 gallon or so would look nice and have contacted a custom builder to see what kind of prices I'm looking at. Basically I'm a newb when it comes to FW and definately would appreciate some ideas on what kind of equipment and maintenance it's gonna take to run this tank properly....
He wants a community tank with plenty of color and movement...nothing aggressive so I need some livestock suggestions also.
If any of you know any custom tank/stand/canopy manufacturers please list them here too so that I can start getting some quotes. Thanks and I look forward to chattin with u guys.

 

[coolchinchilla]

A bunch of angel fish make for a stately dignified tank. African cichlids get largish (4 inches) and they are zipppy fish that like a lot of rock work to hide in and swim through. Plenty of color with the cichlids, however they are a bit on the aggressive side. If you house similar cichlids together they can peacefully coexist. -- maybe call it a truce rather than peace but they are neat looking fish.

Have fun.

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! The possibilities are overwhelming. I would love a 450 gal tank! First if you want color you could go with cichlids to be sure. If you want live plants cichlids are more difficult to keep with plants. Not impossible but more difficult. I have a 125 gal malawi cichlid tank and it is very active and always entertaining. There are more peaceful cichlids such as peacocks, although the females are rather colorless. Mbuna are more aggressive.

Discus are another option if you are willing to monitor the water and do necessary water changes. They are a bit more specialized fish but beautiful IMO. You can have German Blue Rams with discus. Lots of color in that mix IMO.

Those would be my two first favorites.

You can do a large community tank and have several varieties of fish, including some of the larger fish like bala sharks. Angelfish get along well most fish except for the ones small enough to fit into their mouths, like neon tetras.
Or even go with exotics like freshwater sting rays and gars. Really for that size of tank, you have tons of options.

 

[DepotFish]

I agree that big cichlids will be attractive to customers, hopefully they don't hide too much. There will be plenty of room for a big, big school of top dwellers too.

 

[Samper]

I appreciate the replies so far and would definately like to talk more about livestock but before I can get into that too much I need to know about FW equipment so I can get it up and running/cycling.

Do you guys use RO/DI water for your FW tanks?

Lets also talk filtration for a tank this size.....That's what's worrying me at the moment because i still read alot about canister filters and things like being used for FW...but have always heard they were outdated technology for the marine world...
I'm used to huge protein skimmers/refugium combos.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

No need for RO/DI water unless your hardness is extremely high. Tap water is just fine, just need to use dechlor. Then I think 3 cannisters like the XP3 will do fine.

 

[coolchinchilla]

No ro/di needed. Several canister filters would be sufficient. Some people do sumps with large FW tanks but many do not. It would put some of the equipment out of sight if you have a sump. Substrate can be what you'd like. I have pool filter sand in my FW tank. Of course any aquarium gravel at the LFS is fine. For heaters get several so you have back up if one fails. Not sure but would you want some sort of generator or battery back up in case of power failure? What about having a back up hospital tank for sick fish (e.g., just a 20 gal with a filter)? You'll want some power heads to move water if you get some cichlids. Since this will be set up for a business, you might want to look at some showy kinds of decorations like a light laser show or maybe creative air stones and bubble walls. Of course you'll need all the cleaning supplies for such a tank including long gloves, mag float, etc. One thought... for some of the equipment, you might look at pond supplies. They are more frequently set up for large volumes of water.

My 2 cents.

 

[Zagz]

I would go with pool filter sand as your substrate, it is cheap and looks natural. I would probably go with a sump on a tank that large but several cannisters would also work. Most fish require 10x turn over on the tank. There are exceptions to that general rule of thumb depending on what livestock you choose. Cichlids for example need more turnover and discus prefer less water movement. I would agree on looking at the pond supplies as they will work better for a large tank. A good dechlorinator such as prime will be required in bulk . Lighting will largely depend on whether you are looking at live plants or not. If thinking about live plants I would highly recommend checking out the planted tank section of AA. Many great recommendations there.

 

[Jchillin]

You may want to check out Fluval's new FX5...has a rated gph of 900...two would give a nice turnover of 1800gph and when loaded with media, you will probably still get @ 1700gph:

http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/flfx5hipecaf.html

 

[tropicfishman]

thast a big tank lol

 

[Zagz]

You may want to check out Fluval's new FX5...has a rated gph of 900...two would give a nice turnover of 1800gph and when loaded with media, you will probably still get @ 1700gph:

http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/flfx5hipecaf.html

I have a FX5 on my cichlid tank and I love it! It does a fantastic job. I would highly recommend it.

 

[trotty]

First of all what are the dimensions of the tank? canister filters work well on my 8FT 240gal. I have 2 Aqua One CF1200 canisters(will replace with 1 FX5) and a FX5 Fluval. These are located at either end. I have 1 200 gph power head located in the middle for water flow, in total i have about 1200GPH.. I'm Also running 2 300watt heaters in the middle. I would maybe double this list, correct me anyone if this is ova the top? On a tank that size maybe a 6ft weir and sump setup with a couple of pond pumps? It really depends on the fish selection.

 

[jasno999]

I say you get abotu 1,000 neon tetras. That would be sweet.

 

[CompMage]

1,000 Neons would look cool, but....

After playing with the math a little... 10 Foot tank...nice.

Heating is going to be your next major issue for a tank that large.

Going on the rule of 5watt a gallon, Most 10 foot tanks I've seen are about 450 - 550 Gallons. Lets take the middle and say 500 x 5 = 2500 watts / 300 = 8 1/3 so Lets be honest 8 heats

But the fun of larger volumes of water, they maintain their temp very easily. So I would say 6x 300 watt heats, one in each corner and two in the middle back. This should help you maintain a constant temp.

Now for a sub-strat. Pool sand ewwww for a tank that large, cheap walmart grave is 9 bucks for 20 lbs. and looks natural. Pool filter sand it way to bright IMO.

You wanted links here you go.

http://www.aquartaquariums.com/index.htm
http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/custom.htm

 

[jcarlilesiu]

im going to start a new topic in here... what is the construction of the interior of the showroom, or where this tank will sit? The weight of just the water is going to be 3600 pounds. How large will the footprint be?

 

[Samper]

I'm pretty excited about being in this forum because I can tell it's gonna be a big help.

First I'll definately look into the FX5..
6 large heaters won't be a problem I've always been a fan of Ebo-Jagers but Finnex
titaniums on a controller would be great also....what do u guys recommend?


Second the tank footprint I'm considering will be 96x30x36x1 but I don't like the depth and may actually make it 10 feet instead of 8. Weight will not be an issue since the showroom floor will be very thick solid concrete. With that said I thought about running 2 75 gallon sumps underneath it. One for filtration and the other to possibly have a 75 gallon planted...refugium...er whatever the term would be for this scenario. I'm not real sold on a planted display but if plants are needed I'll have a tank underneath for some. I would like to have the stand built with a wider front and back than the actual display footprint. This tank will be viewed from both the front and back with overflows on each end containing atleast a 1.5" bulkhead. This wider cabinet would provide almost a step on each side...but I don't like the idea of a step since kids and such might climb and bang on it so I'll make them medium sized cabinets with large, latchable doors to eliminate that problem. I also think I'll be looking into a simple CO2 system but I can handle that.
For now that's all I have.

BTW jcarlilesiu if you ever make it to Ar and want some good Sushi check out
Sekisui in Little Rock.
Thanks so far and keep the ideas/imput coming plz.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

With a tank that dimension you are looking at about 448 gallons plus the two 75 gallon sumps. This puts your total gallons at 598 gallons. 1 gallon of water weighs +/- 8 pounds, which means total weight will be 4,784 pounds in water weight. Add in equipment stand you are looking at about 5,500 lbs.

This should be no problem for a standard 3,000 pound per square inch concrete slab bearing on solid grade. Just want to make others aware of the weight of such an extreme tank. Good luck

 

[BrianNY]

I've been following this thread for a while and I'll start giving my feedback which includes some words of caution Samper.

First, I love the idea of a sump on a tank that size. Two 75g sumps would be way overkill. Heaters. Wan Bros Pro Titanium II. Simply the best heater on the market.

Even though you're an experienced reefkeeper, big planted high tech tanks can be extremely daunting. Once you start forcing photosynthesis with lights, CO2 and ferts, the pruning and trimming will be a major task in a tank that size. My advice would be to gain some experience at home on a smaller tank (say 30g), and then determine if you want to tackle something of that magnitude.

If it were my tank, I'd do a South American theme. The tank would be scaped with huge pieces of driftwood and the center piece fish would be an arowana (maybe 2). A few interesting catfish and some large cichlids would make up the balance of the fish.

 

[jasno999]

I still think it would be way more interesting if you just did large fgroups of peacefull fish. Guppies/tetras/barbs/gourmi/ect/ect. Find things with different colors and mix and match. If you really want a lot of movment I think that is the way to go.

Yes many cichlids are colorful and larger so they stand out but at the same time may of them like to spend a lot of time hiding.

 

[DeFeKt]

malawi setup imo.
I was going to suggest corner filtration but if it is viewed from both sides this may not be appealing, so sump would be the go.
I'd also forget the plants, as brian said, weekly maintenance would be spending a day a week min. at the shop pruning, pwc, vac, filter maint, ferts, etc..
But I still think malawi setups always catch everyones eyes.
like this..a friends 8x2x2.5....

feeding frenzy.

credits to denis from warnbro on his pictures of his tank.