Tank upgrade stock Advice

[Mike_]

Hi Everyone

I have had a 100l planted tank for the last 7 years and had many different types of fish in it all coldwater.

Since moving in to my first house I decided to get a new bigger 400l tank its roughly 5ft x 2ft x 2ft,
It is running 2x oase biomaster termo 600s so ot pretty well filtered and it is quite heavily planted although still new so not grown out yet.

My question is more of a this is what I planned and what peoples opinions/thought.

Over a period of months so not to add to quickly I would like to get.

40x rosy barbs
20x paradise gouramis
5x angel fish
15x hillstream loaches
15x peppered cory
10x zebra Otos

I have spoken to my local fish specialist and he thinks these fish would all get on fine as the tank is fairly big and he says they will all sit comfortably at 23-24C.

Would people agree with this and what are peoples thoughts on the stocking quantity.

Any help much appreciated and TIA

 

[Fishbait]

Seems like a lot to me. I have almost 300l tank. I have 1-paradise, 2 powder blue guarmie 4 albino Cory, 4 Otto, 1-Angel, 1 black ghost knife, yellow cichlid, and a pleco. I go through 4 frozen blood worms a day. And most of mine are still young so it's going to evolve to feeders soon with the angel and cichlid. But you'll know since your going to ease into it. I get away with much fewer water changes too like once a month. I may add 1 more angel. I'm no expert but it's my opinion.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I would look at removing somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of your stock plans.

Your LFS is just telling you what you want to hear to get you to buy lots of fish. Do they have display tanks in the store? Properly set up, scaped and stocked tanks, not tanks selling fish? If so, i bet they arent massively overstocked. They know it just doesnt look right or work at that level of stocking. They wouldnt do it themselves but are happy for you to try it.

 

[Mike_]

I would look at removing somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of your stock plans.

Your LFS is just telling you what you want to hear to get you to buy lots of fish. Do they have display tanks in the store? Properly set up, scaped and stocked tanks, not tanks selling fish? If so, i bet they arent massively overstocked. They know it just doesnt look right or work at that level of stocking. They wouldnt do it themselves but are happy for you to try it.

Thanks for the advise I just dont want the groups to be to small it being a community tank,

So If I was to go down to
10x paradise gouramis
10x hillstreams
10x peppered cory

Do you think that would be more balanced because the Cory otos and loaches will probably spend most the time under the hardscape.

I could also probably go down to 2 angels I just wanted to get 5 to maximise the chance of 2 pairing up

 

[Aiken Drum]

With all the other fish i still think its too much. If you are prepared to do 2 biggish water changes per week you could get away with it from a bioload PoV but i still think it would be overcrowded.

A few suggestions.

Go for either corys or loaches. They do the same job.

Start with 5 angels with a plan to rehome the rest when 2 pair up.

 

[Mike_]

With all the other fish i still think its too much. If you are prepared to do 2 biggish water changes per week you could get away with it from a bioload PoV but i still think it would be overcrowded.

A few suggestions.

Go for either corys or loaches. They do the same job.

Start with 5 angels with a plan to rehome the rest when 2 pair up.

It has 2 very strong filters but I will reduce the number and see how it goes, thanks for the advise,

Reason for Cory and loach is I already have some of each in my 100l that I want to move across.

You say they do the same job but the hill stream tend to stay on the glass and the Cory's on the bottom do you mean the loaches and the otos ot just different types of loaches

 

[Aiken Drum]

Over filtering is irrelevant. Better than under filtering, but you wont see any benefit from over filtering compared to having enough filtration.

Lets say a moderately stocked tank produces 1ppm ammonia/day. If you have enough filtration, from that ammonia you should see 3.6ppm nitrate. So round figures 25ppm nitrate per week. Based on this you need to change around 40% of the water per week to maintain nitrate at no higher than 40ppm.

Lets now double the number of fish and these fish produce 2ppm ammonia/day. If you have enough filtration, from that ammonia you should see 7.2ppm nitrate. So round figures 50ppm nitrate. Based on this you need to change around 40% of the water every 3 or 4 days to maintain nitrate at no higher than 40ppm.

Overfiltering in neither case will result in better water parameters compared to having enough filtration. If you have sufficient filtration, all the ammonia your tank produces comes out as nitrate. More filtration doesnt result in less nitrate.

 

[Aiken Drum]

To clarify above post.

When im mentioning sufficient filtration and overfiltration, im meaning in relation to your bioload not your tank size.

Overfiltering on the tank size, means that tank can support more bioload, so you can overstock and the filtration will still deal with ammonia and nitrite producing nitrate. An overstocked tank will still produce more nitrate compared to a moderately stocked tank even if you add more filtration and this needs removing through increased water changes.

 

[Mike_]

To clarify above post.

When im mentioning sufficient filtration and overfiltration, im meaning in relation to your bioload not your tank size.

Overfiltering on the tank size, means that tank can support more bioload, so you can overstock and the filtration will still deal with ammonia and nitrite producing nitrate. An overstocked tank will still produce more nitrate compared to a moderately stocked tank even if you add more filtration and this needs removing through increased water changes.

Thank you I understand where your coming from,

I assume as the plants develop and grow the will help somewhat with the ammonia and nitrites.

So for example once fully grown out a normal 40% water change every week could probably be more like 20 to 30% every week, and more frequently depending on stocking as mentioned

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you are cycled then the nitrogen cycle will remove ammonia before your plants get chance to take it up. And I really think with the amount of plants you have and the large amount of bioload you are planning, the plants wont make much of a dent in the nitrate.

You really need fast growing, surface plants to take up any appreciable nitrate. Or go high tech, CO2, high lights.