Water Parameter Question

[llamabob]

I just ordered a KH test kit, never had one before.

I'm looking to add Discus to my new 90gal after Christmas, I checked and wrote down all specs of my current fish, ideal temp, PH, water hardness etc.

The only major conflict is infact KH, wide range with my fish, but I will see what mine is once I get my kit (my LFS did not have any, can you beleive that). If it's 1-4 I'll proceed to the next step of getting them.

Anyhow, all will fit my PH levels but I do need to lower it if I am to keep Discus.


Currently it is 7.4. I want to aim for 6.8-7.0. If not, I cannot get Discus, correct?

Now I read that increased CO2 will infact lower PH? Is it ok to have a tank without an air pump, and if so, will it noticbly lower my PH to a level Discus can fully tolerate? I have 2 air strips which produce a LOT of surface disturbance. Basically I'm looking for a permanant way to decrease PH without using chemicals.

If I were to decide upon Discus, I would plant the tank before, so it would be CO2 injected.

I will not rush into getting them so I'm open to any and all long term solutions that may allow me to keep them

Thanks guys.

[JDogg]

Congrats on the new 90 gallon, make sure you do a fishless cycle, Discus would never survive the cycling process, in fact i would run the tank (with a some fish, but after the fishless cycle) for at least 6 months before adding the discus to make sure everything is stable.

one way to lower you PH naturally would be peat in the filter and/or driftwood. BUT a stable PH is more important then a perfect ph so i would leave the ph where it is if i was you.

what fish are you "current fish"?

i would keep the air strips for now, until you start adding CO2, and even then you might want to run them at night...

if i you are thinking of planting this tank make sure you checkout the Planted Tank Forum here, it is great. read all the stickies and learn all about how much light you need, dosing ferts and CO2...

[llamabob]

Originally Posted by JDogg

Congrats on the new 90 gallon, make sure you do a fishless cycle, Discus would never survive the cycling process, in fact i would run the tank (with a some fish, but after the fishless cycle) for at least 6 months before adding the discus to make sure everything is stable.

one way to lower you PH naturally would be peat in the filter and/or driftwood. BUT a stable PH is more important then a perfect ph so i would leave the ph where it is if i was you.

what fish are you "current fish"?

i would keep the air strips for now, until you start adding CO2, and even then you might want to run them at night...

if i you are thinking of planting this tank make sure you checkout the Planted Tank Forum here, it is great. read all the stickies and learn all about how much light you need, dosing ferts and CO2...

Thanks for the reply!

The 90gal will be cycled thoroughly using current filter media for awhile before i move them in. All parameters will be measured too. Also I want to plant before I get any Discus so that'll be another 2-3 month setup as I wait for finances to support it, then wait to be able to accruately control and maintain CO2 levels etc.

My current fish are

1 Jurupari
2 Syondontis euruptus(sp)
2 Angels(I want 2-3 more to curb newly forming aggression)
1 Rainbow Shark
1 Farawella

I wrote down all specs for each fish to compare, PH, temp, hardness etc.

I may have to keep the shark and Fara. in my current tank because they may not be able to handle the high temp, but the rest are ok.

Once I get readings on my hardness(kit on its way) I will determine further from there.

Yeah before I even touch plants I will finish learning, still reading up now, but I have read the price of lights and CO2 regulator(ouch), haha.

If the PH were to get to only maybe 7.1-7.3, would Discus be ok? Dr foster and smith website says 6.1-7.5, 6.9 being optimal, Discus are notoriously finicky about water.

[justrelax]

Where are you getting your discus from? As jdogg said, stable pH is more important than perfect. On that note, if you can find a local breeder who has locally raised discus for sale the battle is half won (provided they don't use ro/di) because the fish are already used to your water. Make sense?

2 Angels(I want 2-3 more to curb newly forming aggression)

Typically angel aggression goes up the more there are. What size tank are they in now? I think even a 90 gallon is pushing it for enough space for 4 angels, let alone two that dont get along.

Oh yeah, Welcome to AA

[llamabob]

Originally Posted by justrelax

Where are you getting your discus from? As jdogg said, stable pH is more important than perfect. On that note, if you can find a local breeder who has locally raised discus for sale the battle is half won (provided they don't use ro/di) because the fish are already used to your water. Make sense?

Typically angel aggression goes up the more there are. What size tank are they in now? I think even a 90 gallon is pushing it for enough space for 4 angels, let alone two that dont get along.

Oh yeah, Welcome to AA

Thanks

Good idea on the local, however I think the only possible local stores are an hour south of me in city water(Syracuse). I live in a small hicktown an hour north. I could ask to test their water, thanks for the idea! There is one decent one here that I could possibly special order, they are knowledgable and pretty clean.

I was gonna order them online, we'll see how the local stores go, I'm getting my tank in Syracuse anyway so I can check around to see if anyone does/or will carry them when I'm ready.

I thought semi aggressive fish became more tame in group settings? Well, I guess in a 90g they should be fine, will be plenty of room and hiding spots. Right now they ARE overcrowded and I'm trying to get my new tank ASAP before real trouble starts. I made a novice mistake and plan to correct it. If they contunue to fight I will split them. It's not constant fighting, just occasional.

As for the PH, it has been constant since i first set it up til now. If and when I add plants and it stays constant, i should be golden on PH then.

[severum mama]

I am assuming that you mean to move your current stock to the new 90 gallon, and then add discus, is that correct? I see some issues with compatibility with your current fish. I keep one angel, and it is a very aggressive feeder. I wouldn't want to put it in my discus tank. My discus are much more laid back than most angelfish, and I think discus would be stressed in the presence of angels, not to mention getting outcompeted for food. Also, given the activity and aggression level of my own rainbow shark, I would have to say that it would also not be compatible with discus. As for the geophagus jurupari, I haven't kept one so I don't know much about their personalities, but it sounds risky to me. The other issue I see with the jurupari is that geophagus species are known diggers, and yours will likely dig up your plants.

If it were my tank, I would either find new homes for my current fish, or skip the discus, or keep your current tank set up and set up the 90 specifically for the discus. Clearly, with 5 tanks I have chosen option 3 more often than not, LOL, so that is what I would do. Then you get to have your cake and eat it too!

Finally, with 7.4 pH I wouldn't even mess with it for discus. They can tolerate that pH a lot more easily than if you adjust pH and it isn't stable. My pH is higher than that and my discus are happy- I got them locally and I knew they were being kept in tap water, so there was really no reason for me to change what they were used to.

[llamabob]

Originally Posted by severum mama

I am assuming that you mean to move your current stock to the new 90 gallon, and then add discus, is that correct? I see some issues with compatibility with your current fish. I keep one angel, and it is a very aggressive feeder. I wouldn't want to put it in my discus tank. My discus are much more laid back than most angelfish, and I think discus would be stressed in the presence of angels, not to mention getting outcompeted for food. Also, given the activity and aggression level of my own rainbow shark, I would have to say that it would also not be compatible with discus. As for the geophagus jurupari, I haven't kept one so I don't know much about their personalities, but it sounds risky to me. The other issue I see with the jurupari is that geophagus species are known diggers, and yours will likely dig up your plants.

If it were my tank, I would either find new homes for my current fish, or skip the discus, or keep your current tank set up and set up the 90 specifically for the discus. Clearly, with 5 tanks I have chosen option 3 more often than not, LOL, so that is what I would do. Then you get to have your cake and eat it too!

Finally, with 7.4 pH I wouldn't even mess with it for discus. They can tolerate that pH a lot more easily than if you adjust pH and it isn't stable. My pH is higher than that and my discus are happy- I got them locally and I knew they were being kept in tap water, so there was really no reason for me to change what they were used to.

Thanks for the input!

I wouldn't use a short term change for PH, it would be constant, thats my goal. It's been constant for 6 or so months. If i COULD get a lower, but constant PH, I would be happier, but as long as it's constant I'm happy.

As for the angels, they are very mild, they only occasionally pick on each others but NEVER bother my others, I recently had a Columbian shark, but he died, and they all got along.

The rainbow shark is shockingly mild and passive, he NEVER, and I mean never, bothers anyone, he's always by himself, he is also the smallest by far, but as timid as a tetra.

They all eat readily and do not fight over food.

The jurupari is very peaceful for a cichlid, he doesn't fight with anyone. He's my favorite by far, he has such a goofy lip structure and "who cares" attitude.

If worse comes to worse, I was already planning to keep the shark in the current tank. If I do get the Discus, if the angels produce any problems they will either be split or both put back in the current tank which more plants and media for better speration. If that fails I will give them away to a better home.

Also I have seen many tanks with a mix of angels and Discus, and they seemed ok so long as they were not overcrowded. I may even only move the Jurupari and 1 or 2 of the Catfish.

With what I shared, do you still consider it a bad idea or would it be a much safer situation?

[tropicfishman]

I love discus's gorgeous fish and very intresting to watch, but I understand they are sensitive to water quality, and as previously mentioned they wouldn't survive a cycling process lol good luck to ya and let us know what kind you got and how its doing in the new tank

[llamabob]

Originally Posted by tropicfishman

I love discus's gorgeous fish and very intresting to watch, but I understand they are sensitive to water quality, and as previously mentioned they wouldn't survive a cycling process lol good luck to ya and let us know what kind you got and how its doing in the new tank

Yeah I know, it will be cycled before i add my current fish, and still won't add them until I plant the tank, if I decide to go with them.

[severum mama]

The rainbow shark is shockingly mild and passive, he NEVER, and I mean never, bothers anyone, he's always by himself, he is also the smallest by far, but as timid as a tetra.

Well, I'm glad you were planning on keeping him in your current tank, because he won't be passive for long. Mine was about 2 and 1/2 inches when I got it in June, and since then it has grown to 5 and 1/2 inches and has similarly increased in bulk. My shark's attitude has grown accordingly, to say the least. I think you'll be surprised at how aggressive yours gets.

How big is your jurupari? They are known to be relatively passive... for a cichlid. But a jurupari may even become too boisterous for a discus tank IMO, plus there's still the issue with the plants. Discus may nip and chase at each other, but they are extremely passive toward other species in the tank. I think it's risky to keep them with your current stock list, but that is JMO.

Looking forward to pics!

[Jman17H]

I would definetly keep your farowella in your current tank. Once they get big they will start ripping big holes in your plant leaves as they move around.

I am currently needing to pawn mine off somewhere when I upgrade to my new 150 in the next few weeks.