New fantail goldfish, rescued

[cabbagebutterfly]

Hi all,

I'm now the happy carer of two fantail goldfish, that we rescued from quite bad conditions (imo) 2 days ago (Monday). When we found them, they had been left for (at least) a week and a half, in a plastic storage box about 1/3 full of water. We have no idea if they had been fed during that time, but looking in the box from the side, the water was so murky you couldn't see the fish. Needless to say there was no filter.

They are now happily rehomed in a nice new 60l tank, complete with filter and 2 live plants. I think from what I've read they're relatively young fish. I have the filter start going and did about a 15% water change today. They've also had some stress coat in there.

However the one thing that is bothering me is that they seem quite itchy. I'm assuming that it's a result of the horrible water they were in, and it will just take a few days to wear off, but I want to also double-check with you guys. By itching, I mean that occasionally I'll look over and one will be rubbing it's side along the bottom of the tank. Today they've also been going from the top to the bottom of the tank and then at the bottom rubbing themselves along the bottom of the tank. I feel like they've been doing it more today than yesterday

I have also as a precaution just now put some more tapsafe in.

They're my first experience of coldwater fish, so any advice is really welcome. I suppose my last question is that they're in my work office at the moment, and I will have to take them home at some point. Is Friday going to be long enough to let them recover from the horrible old environment or should I leave it longer so that the stress doesn't kill them? Of course the problem with leaving them longer is that they won't get any food over the weekend, or have their light turned on.

Help?

 

[jlk]

Hi! That was a kind thing to do to rescue them! Is the 60gal cycled? As long as theres 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, & 20 (or less) nitrates where they are now, they will recover over time. If its not cycled, you are going to encounter problems and i would bring them home so you can monitor their water parameters (or place them in an established tank). If the 60gal is cycled, I would leave them alone for a few weeks & let them recover (this is just my opinion). They will be fine on the weekends if they are not fed for 2 days & their lights arent on as long as they are being fed during the week. Do you have an adequate size established tank at home to place them in (min 30gal)?

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

The tank is 60 litres not gallons...I think possibly this is going to be a bit small for them long term but atm they're not more than about 3 inches (including the tail) so I'm hoping it's ok?

I am going to do a water test tomorrow, but it's a brand new tank and now 2 days into its cycling (I added filter start on monday and then again today.

re taking them home, I also don't have an established tank they can go in, as our current fish tank is a tropical one with guppies and platys. So unfortunately they would have to live out the cycle, and I'm just hoping that being nurtured through a cycling tank is going to be less bad than being in a poo water box...I am a bit anxious that taking them home will involve mostly brand new water again (although same filter obviously), but I have no other options re this due to no established spare tank. I could however move over some water from our tropical tank if that might bring over some bacteria? Or maybe a fish toy from the other tank?

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Adding to that, I've just been having another look online and as you say, it seems to suggest them need around 30 gallons long-term, so around 115 litres. And I must admit, I am now wondering where on earth we can fit 2 30 gallon tanks into our (not that big) house :| (even aside from the cost).

It's a bit of an anxious situation really, as they're definitely better with me than where they were, and they're really very cute and friendly; but I don't want my help and care to be vastly inadequate either :| Any hints and tips for overcoming these hurdles?

Although primarily, obviously, focusing on their itchiness...

 

[jlk]

Please do a water test TODAY followed by a large pwc!!! 60l is approximately 15 gallons. Goldfish need 20gal for the 1st fish, 10 gal for each fish after (this is the minimum). If you have a larger tank at home, please take them home so you can monitor their water daily (and do pwcs) even though it wont be cycled. If you can move some of your filter media or some gravel from your established tank this will aid in the cycling process. Please read up on 'fish-in cycling' and keep asking questions so your fish can get through this safely!

 

[jlk]

Their itchiness (its called flashing when they rub on the gravel/ornaments) is the result of their horrific environment. You will have to be viligant on taking care of their water so they can recover. Any detectable ammonia or nitrites in their new home will further irritate them and impede their recovery. You may see areas of their skin turning black (there may already be areas of black) resulting from ammonia burns. This will heal over time as well as long as you take care of their water.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Morning,
I've brought in my water testing kit from home today, and the results are as follows:
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ?30 (looks darker than 20 but lighter than 40)

There's no sign of any skin damage on either of them fortunately!

I am tempted to do another 10% water change today, and tomorrow is coming home day (which of course comes with its own problems of practically a tankful of brand new water again...)

The 60l tank is the only one available at the moment, as I do not have endless spare money or indeed space to put lots of big tanks. But on the good side I am quite prone to (post cycling) changing the water every week anyway! Obviously in the long term, we will save up for a bigger tank for them.

Can someone explain why the nitrate is high? It's been quite a while since we cycled our own tank, but I'm surprised for there to be ammonia and high nitrate but low nitrite...?

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Incidentally, is this 'AmmoLock' any good? As if it works, I'm thinking it might be a good way of keeping the fish happy whilst the tank cycles. Does it affect the bacteria growth?

 

[davePM]

Incidentally, is this 'AmmoLock' any good? As if it works, I'm thinking it might be a good way of keeping the fish happy whilst the tank cycles. Does it affect the bacteria growth?

No! It's pointless. Water changes to reduce ammo and nitrite/nitrate. Keep testing and changing water till they are below .25 and nitrate is less than about 20. But it's the ammo and nitrite you need to keep down. You may even need to do several changes a day.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Being a suspicious person, I did the nitrate test on the tap water...
If anything it actually came up as worse than the tank test
I'll still do a small water change today but I think that they're basically fine - and will be better once they're using my home tap water (as that doesn't come with one ton of nitrate).

 

[jlk]

You answered your own question by testing the tap water! Good job! Dont worry too much about the nitrate levels-you will only be able to get them as low as your tap water. Ok-my first suggestion, when in doubt (or you get detectable amm/nitrites) do a pwc! During the cycling process, this is going to be often (daily) and they will need to be large pwcs (50%) to reduce amm/nitrite. Im not familiar with amm-lock, but Prime or AMquel Plus both will detoxify chlorine/chloramines and provide some level of detoxification of amm/nitrite/nitrate. When you bring them home (and start with a new tank), its not the 'new' water that will be issue. Beneficial bacteria live on the surfaces of everything (very few in the actual water) so adding some filter media from your established tank to the new tank or placing some gravel in a piece of pantyhose & putting that in the new tank will both help with cycling & adding bb. Let us know how things are going & please ask if you have more questions! ps>give craigslist a try for a cheap, bigger tank (if you are in the US)

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Tank gunge from other tank - got it, will be doing that once they're home (tomorrow I hope!)
Tapsafe and stresscoat should be doing nicely on the chloramablahblah and such like things
PWC - totally on top of it
Think they're a bit less itchy today too And I didn't call it flashing as they're not so much doing that as gliding sideways along the floor of the tank for some distance

 

[jlk]

Good work & good luck!!! Your doing a great thing by rescueing these guys! Goldfish are friendly, comical creatures with big personalities so enjoy them!
jessica

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Thank you
Stage 2 is making sure I am allowed to take them home and I don't have to deal with any nonsense about the teenager they 'belonged' to getting them back...
And they really are Totally adorable

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Oh dear, quick paranoid follow-up question.

Due to fish not yet (if ever!) being signed over to me officially they had to stay at work for the weekend. When I got in this morning I did a 30-40% water change, and the levels were 0.5 ammonia and 0.25 nitrite (presumably now down a lot due to the water change, will measure again tomorrow and re-change water if needed).

I've just looked over and a couple of times have seen one of them up the top of the tank looking slightly as though he is gasping...(though equally he could just be blowing bubbles, but it was reminiscent of when our guppies were). Is that what it looks like in goldfish and what do I do, as the filter is actually blowing bubbles into the water constantly so I'd think it was pretty aerated...? Could he just be hunting for food?

Also one of the fish seems to be missing out on the food mostly, due to not paying attention and getting there late. They do have a plant in there, should I add a bit more food or let him eat that? (was advised not to overfeed for a few weeks due to cycling tank).

They're still a bit itchy, hoping it will improve.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Can you change the water twice in one day? Will it even help, seeing as I just RE-measured the ammonia/nitrite and it was exactly the same as this morning, despite a water change?

 

[jlk]

The gasping at the surface is common with high ammonia/nitrite. Change the water asap (50%). As long as you add water conditioner & temp match, you can do back to back pwcs until you get those amm/nitrite levels below .25. Dont be afraid of doing pwcs (even mutiple ones) and if your in doubt at all, do them!!! You also can add an airstone or bubble wand to increase the oxygen in the tank (in addition to the filter).

 

[librarygirl]

The gasping at the surface is common with high ammonia/nitrite. Change the water asap (50%). As long as you add water conditioner & temp match, you can do back to back pwcs until you get those amm/nitrite levels below .25. Dont be afraid of doing pwcs (even mutiple ones) and if your in doubt at all, do them!!! You also can add an airstone or bubble wand to increase the oxygen in the tank (in addition to the filter).

^ Agree with everything that was said.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Right, have done 50% water change.
Not sure about temp matching but is all coming out the same tap so hopefully! Have added water conditioner.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

And honestly, because it's a bubbling water filter, the water is literally Full of little air bubbles so hopefully that should be enough! Until tomorrow