Questions on substrate...

[Fishy123]

I just ordered a stand for our new 40 gal breeder tank, so within the next week or two we should be finally setting up the tank!! I am getting so excited. Last couple days I have been reading all about gravel vs PFS. Only problem is, I keep getting the negative of both, and not much on the positives. Can you guys share some of the benefits of using one over the other? I didn't even know PFS was an option until a few days ago and my husband really wants to go that route, he said it looks more natural.

I have read though that a lot of the community fish I am interested in prefer a darker substrate as it make them feel more secure, and PFS is anything but dark! Would the fish still be okay if I put lots of plants (artificial) and objects to hide in? Also, with PFS how do you clean it? Do you use a siphon vac just like gravel? Not sure how to care for a tank with sand.....any input from you guys would be greatly appreciated. If someone switched from one to the other, I'd be interested to know your reasons for doing so also, Thanks everyone!

 

[mfdrookie516]

So I'm sure you've seen that I recommend PFS to everyone wanting sand. Here's why:
-It's very natural looking, which is a big plus for me
-Plants do very well with it if you go that route
-It is heavy enough that it won't get sucked up in the gravel vac. I use my gravel vac just like I would with gravel
-Its cheap
-It's inert
-It is designed not to compact (since it is designed for pool filters)
-It often has dark grains mixed in it to give it a not so 'blah' look

Some people will say that any sand will get anaerobic gas pockets which can kill fish. A- never seen anyone using pfs report this. B- even if it did, once the bubble hits oxygenated water, its not toxic.

As far as darker substrate, I've always heard the opposite. I've heard fish wont color up because they feel like they stand out making themselves an open target. My experience with various fish (including community fish and african cichlids) is that they seem very happy with the light colored pool sand. Now, pure white (like snow) sand could have some issues, but this stuff is more of a tan color. Here's a pic of my 40 breeder with pool filter sand a week or two ago...

 

[RamCichlidLover]

I love your tank!

 

[Rhino]

I am going through the same debate. Pfs is much cheaper, looks nicer. But cant really use air stpnes with, at least not the way I like which is burried. Really don't know if I need them? But I think I will do pfs.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I'll chime just to say that everything rookie says about PFS is excellent info and why I use PFS too.

I'll just add that the debate about silica and diatoms is bunk. I have an outbreak in a well established tank with gravel and I figure it's from a major lighting upgrade recently installed.

 

[Fishy123]

Jonathan, your tank build threads are the reason my husband wants the PFS!

So if we go with the PFS, can we buy that at like Home Depot or Lowes, or do I have to go to a pool place? Is there a certain brand, or just PFS?

Also with gravel they say like 1lb-1 1/2lb for each gallon of the tank, is there a guide for PFS, or should it just be like "X" amount of inches deep?

 

[BigJim]

I'm partial to sand. I did gravel for years and it traps waste and takes more time to clean. The only down side I've found with sand is it can form anaerobic pockets and create hydrogen sulfide gas, which is toxic to your tank in large quantities. You can stir the sand or add malaysian trumpet snails (MTS) to stir the sand for you. I went the snail route. The snails hide most of the day so your tank isn't completely cluttered.

If you're looking for a cheap dark substrate, try looking for a coal slag blasting compound. I got a product called Black Blast from Menards for $8 for 50lb. It's pretty much black with a hint of sparkle. My avatar shows it. I've got it in a 40B with a bunch of fish and a 5g with RCS, so it's invert safe. The finer grades are about the same texture as other sands.

 

[Rhino]

I'm partial to sand. I did gravel for years and it traps waste and takes more time to clean. The only down side I've found with sand is it can form anaerobic pockets and create hydrogen sulfide gas, which is toxic to your tank in large quantities. You can stir the sand or add malaysian trumpet snails (MTS) to stir the sand for you. I went the snail route. The snails hide most of the day so your tank isn't completely cluttered.

If you're looking for a cheap dark substrate, try looking for a coal slag blasting compound. I got a product called Black Blast from Menards for $8 for 50lb. It's pretty much black with a hint of sparkle. My avatar shows it. I've got it in a 40B with a bunch of fish and a 5g with RCS, so it's invert safe. The finer grades are about the same texture as other sands.

Read rookies post above about the gas pockets.

 

[fishguy1]

So I'm sure you've seen that I recommend PFS to everyone wanting sand. Here's why:
-It's very natural looking, which is a big plus for me
-Plants do very well with it if you go that route
-It is heavy enough that it won't get sucked up in the gravel vac. I use my gravel vac just like I would with gravel
-Its cheap
-It's inert
-It is designed not to compact (since it is designed for pool filters)
-It often has dark grains mixed in it to give it a not so 'blah' look

Some people will say that any sand will get anaerobic gas pockets which can kill fish. A- never seen anyone using pfs report this. B- even if it did, once the bubble hits oxygenated water, its not toxic.

As far as darker substrate, I've always heard the opposite. I've heard fish wont color up because they feel like they stand out making themselves an open target. My experience with various fish (including community fish and african cichlids) is that they seem very happy with the light colored pool sand. Now, pure white (like snow) sand could have some issues, but this stuff is more of a tan color. Here's a pic of my 40 breeder with pool filter sand a week or two ago...

I agree about the sand 100%.

IME the dark substrate can make some fish darker and the lighter substrate can make some fish lighter. However, it seems to me like this is more a function of stress in general - when they are stressed, they will lighten or darken as a safety measure.

Here is white sand (caribsea supernaturals moonlight sand). The serpaes bleached out during the day but had beautifully rich colors at night, but the tigers never changed. When I put the tigers in a tank with dark sand, they were noticeably darker, but I don't know if thats because they actually were or if I just perceived them to be. I was experimenting with the underwater camera...not the best video I know

YouTube - P9210084

 

[Big-j]

How much does pfs usually cost? I went to lowes today and there was a 20lb bag of pool filter sand plus for like $26? I thought it was super cheap??

 

[Rhino]

How much does pfs usually cost? I went to lowes today and there was a 20lb bag of pool filter sand plus for like $26? I thought it was super cheap??

Amazon had quikrete pfs 50lb bag for $8.

 

[BigJim]

That's a crazy price for PFS. Look for Quickrete Medium sand near the concrete mix. It's white, clean, and has the texture of granulated sugar. I haven't used PFS so I don't know exactly how the Quickrete stuff compares, but I got the Medium sand for $3 for 50lb.

 

[Dominus]

I read somewhere that there are supposedly different brands of PFS that have additives and such, is there a specific brand that people use that is aquarium safe?