Type of fish with apistogramma

[siva]

I didn't say length, I said body mass, which is far more important in regards to bio-load, which is one of the primary reasons that the inch of fish per gallon rule is ridiculous IMO. I've been keeping neon tetras for atleast a decade, I am very familiar with them, and the body mass of two (thickness) is absolutely more than 10 chili rasboras. That's why they are often referred to as mosquito rasbora, a name I personally prefer, because they are so tiny and skinny. To say there is a difference between 6 of them and 10 of them is silly IMO, and when you are talking about pretty much the smallest fish in the hobby, giving them a few more in their school so they feel comfortable is a good idea IME/O.

Corydoras pygmaeus are not bottom dwellers, they are mid tank shoalers, so I don't think they fill out the stock quite as nicely and/or may not be what the OP is looking for. They do not look or act like a typical cory, same for corydoras hastatus. Pygmaeus and hastatus are also much more difficult to have success with. Over the years I've had a harder time finding healthy specimens and have heard the same from many other hobbyists. I do keep a mixed group of pygmaeus and hastatus that I've had for atleast a couple years and I only ever see them at feeding time.

 

[siva]

An example, the bio-load of one adult female platy would be greater than the entire stock I've suggested IMO - yet according to the inch per gallon rule many feel that they've stocked their 10 gal well with platties...which I disagree with. There are way too many variables that go into stocking to use a general rule like that, and especially with a more beginner hobbyist I would never even bring it into the conversation because it will only cause confusion and possibly improper stocking in the future.

 

[Kamek909]

Siva, so i cant put any fish or snail to clean up the waste if i do 8 dwarf cories with 10 chili rasbora and 6 ember tetra? If so how many? But if it would make things more difficult than id juss leave it with the 8 dwarf cory, 10 chili rasbora, and 6 ember tetra.

 

[siva]

Something small will round out the look nicely and prevent a concern when it comes to bio-load. I would choose horned nerites, 2-3 of them, if you want snails because they stay very small. These are snails that eat nothing but algae so if you want success with them it's best to add them to a well established tank and not one that has just been set up recently. They also do not reproduce in freshwater. Or the dwarf shrimp would be fine as well as long as you can deal with the population as it expands.

 

[Kamek909]

Oh ok sounds good. I will do the 8 dwarf cories with 10 chili rasbora and 6 ember tetras for my 10 gal after i cycle. I just want some fish or shrimp or somethinh that eats waste from the gravel. I will do water changes weekly. So is there any fish or watever to keep the tank clean? I will add live plants.

 

[siva]

Oh good, live plants will make all these little fish feel more secure while also helping keep the water clean. Nothing will eat actual fish waste from the gravel but dwarf shrimp will feed on leftover food in the substrate. Do be careful not to overfeed however as this is crucial to keeping ammonia/nitrite out of the tank and keeping nitrates low. Dwarf shrimp will also feed on bits of algae, where as the nerite snails I mentioned will feed only on algae and will not do any food clean up.

If the tank isn't already set up I recommend sand for the substrate, or if you want gravel go for small round stones instead of typical aquarium gravel. This isn't a must, but I wanted to throw it out there in case you are still deciding on substrate. Cories just love sand and I find it easier for planting as well, with smooth stones coming in second because the cories can still root around in them without getting poked.

 

[Fishperson]

I didn't say length, I said body mass, which is far more important in regards to bio-load, which is one of the primary reasons that the inch of fish per gallon rule is ridiculous IMO. I've been keeping neon tetras for atleast a decade, I am very familiar with them, and the body mass of two (thickness) is absolutely more than 10 chili rasboras. That's why they are often referred to as mosquito rasbora, a name I personally prefer, because they are so tiny and skinny. To say there is a difference between 6 of them and 10 of them is silly IMO, and when you are talking about pretty much the smallest fish in the hobby, giving them a few more in their school so they feel comfortable is a good idea IME/O.

Corydoras pygmaeus are not bottom dwellers, they are mid tank shoalers, so I don't think they fill out the stock quite as nicely and/or may not be what the OP is looking for. They do not look or act like a typical cory, same for corydoras hastatus. Pygmaeus and hastatus are also much more difficult to have success with. Over the years I've had a harder time finding healthy specimens and have heard the same from many other hobbyists. I do keep a mixed group of pygmaeus and hastatus that I've had for atleast a couple years and I only ever see them at feeding time.

First of all, I realize that you said mass, but still saying that two neon tetras have more mass than 10 chilies is ridiculous. Albeit a small fish, it is not that small. Secondly, you are right that saying 6 instead of ten doesn't make a difference as far as bioload, but I thought to conserve swimming space more.

I said Corydoras Pygmaeus because I was referring to the one that came off of my head first. There are three categorized into the dwarf cory name, also the dwarf and dainty cory that you mentioned.

At this point arguing is pointless and only taking up thread space, as the highly impressionable OP seems to have his mind set again.

PM me if you'd like to debate further.

 

[siva]

It is clear to me you do not keep these fish. I feel like no one who keeps chilis and neons could possibly think this is ridiculous. If it wouldn't be tramatic for the fish I'd go pull 2 and 10 out and throw them on the kitchen scale to prove my point, but that would be silly. I stand by everything I've said here and I haven't spoke about anything that I don't have a lot of personal experience with

 

[Kamek909]

Thanks alot you helped me out a alot! Ok i will add dwarf shrimp. How many do u think i should add with the stock?

 

[Fishperson]

An example, the bio-load of one adult female platy would be greater than the entire stock I've suggested IMO - yet according to the inch per gallon rule many feel that they've stocked their 10 gal well with platties...which I disagree with. There are way too many variables that go into stocking to use a general rule like that, and especially with a more beginner hobbyist I would never even bring it into the conversation because it will only cause confusion and possibly improper stocking in the future.

Oh my gosh, here we go again.

I hate it when people bash the inch per gallon rule with ridiculous examples like "of course I can't put a ten inch pleco in a ten gallon tank". Your example was more realistic, and I didn't want to start this whole thing up again so I specifically never said whether or not I support the rule.

I think it can be modified, and when appropriately done it can work well. For example, thin fish like rummynose tetras, kuhli loaches, and chili rasboras (how appropriate) have small bioloads, and therefore one inch if them is world th half an inch of normal fish. Livebearers such as platies, mollies, and swordtails are worth triple, so a three inch platy is worth 9 normal inches. This rule does not work well for newer aquarists to use, but those with experience and knowledge can use it to judge other tanks.

 

[siva]

Remember once your tank is cycled to add slowly...don't go out and buy everything all at once. Once you've have all the fish for a while and are trucking along successfully, try the shrimp. If your only option is going to be a local store you might want to just grab a few because they are expensive there and will reproduce anyway, but if you order from another hobbyist what you will typically find is groups of 10-20, which is an appropriate amount. Just realize the population will expand quickly, especially with nano fish who won't be picking off as many of the young shrimp.

 

[Kamek909]

Ok thank you

 

[Fishperson]

It is clear to me you do not keep these fish. I feel like no one who keeps chilis and neons could possibly think this is ridiculous. If it wouldn't be tramatic for the fish I'd go pull 2 and 10 out and throw them on the kitchen scale to prove my point, but that would be silly. I stand by everything I've said here and I haven't spoke about anything that I don't have a lot of personal experience with

No I don't keep chilies but I have had neons before and let me tell you they ARE small. I have seen chilies a few times, and I would quite honestly gladly take that bet. I remember hearing that neon tetras weigh .12 grams, and I doubt that a chili rasbora weighs .024 grams.

 

[siva]

Oh my gosh, here we go again.

I hate it when people bash the inch per gallon rule with ridiculous examples like "of course I can't put a ten inch pleco in a ten gallon tank". Your example was more realistic, and I didn't want to start this whole thing up again so I specifically never said whether or not I support the rule.

I think it can be modified, and when appropriately done it can work well. For example, thin fish like rummynose tetras, kuhli loaches, and chili rasboras (how appropriate) have small bioloads, and therefore one inch if them is world th half an inch of normal fish. Livebearers such as platies, mollies, and swordtails are worth triple, so a three inch platy is worth 9 normal inches. This rule does not work well for newer aquarists to use, but those with experience and knowledge can use it to judge other tanks.

Please don't "go" anywhere..it's nice to be able to discuss things without anyone getting upset. I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of when people confuse newer hobbyists with the inch per gallon rule, and I did not provide anything close to a ridiculous example, so we just aren't on the same page. I stock rummies like I would any other tetra..no special category there for me. According to your philosophy a 29 gal can only house three platties, which according to my experience, if it's filtered and planted and maintained properly, more of those important stocking variables, can house more than that. We can agree to disagree because your stocking philosophy just doesn't fall in line with mine.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression this was a newer aquarist I was trying to help educate and inform, so I'm not sure what place continuing a conversation on a topic you feel could be helpful for those more experienced has here.

No I don't keep chilies but I have had neons before and let me tell you they ARE small. I have seen chilies a few times, and I would quite honestly gladly take that bet. I remember hearing that neon tetras weigh .12 grams, and I doubt that a chili rasbora weighs .024 grams.

For the OP instead of debating the weights of fish and going back and forth I will try to be more helpful...I will catch one of my neons and bag it and float the bag in with my rasboras and try to snap a pic of one right next to the tetra. That way you can judge for yourself what kind of size difference there is between the two if you don't have first hand experience with them. If you've only seen pics of chili rasboras online you can't grasp how small they are. I'm not a great photographer but I will try!

 

[siva]

OK finally got to that. I ended up going a different route to get the shot, here are the results! These are 1.5 oz glasses and the specimens are both healthy adults atleast 18 mos of age. I did not choose one of the plumper (female) tetras. I hope this is helpful for everyone.

Oh and by the way @Kamek909 your rasboras will have brilliant color once settled in, this one is just a bit stressed at the moment hence the washed out appearance.

 

[Kamek909]

Nice fish! That neon tetra is bright!

 

[siva]

Yes he didn't really wash out his color at all. You can see a neon tetra literally dwarfs a chili rasbora.

 

[Kamek909]

I cant wait to re do my tank and cycle it. I messed up by not cycling it with my tiger barbs and they needed a 20 gal :/ im new to this

 

[siva]

Ah yes it's quite an adventure isn't it

 

[Kamek909]

Yup ill take your advise and make the bedding sand. Is there a certain type u recomend?