Ich?

[LKemp712]

I have been in Saltwater aquariums for one year now and I still don't have this completely down.
I have had my fair share of issues including ich.
I just switched from a 55g to a 120g tank. Right before the switch my boyfriend noticed some spots on our heniochus' fin that resembled ich. We put all our fish from the 55g into our QT tank and started copper.
We proceeded to drain and take down our 55g and started the 120g. In the midst of all the excitement my boyfriend put the rock from the 55g into the new 120g.
-Note here that the 120g came with some of its previous rock and 7 of its previous fish.
Now we have seen an ich like spot on the yellow tang that came with the 120g.
I'm kind of at a loss at what to do now. Is it really necessary for me to take all the fish out of the 120g and put them in QT? Ideas? Thanks, Lindsey

[alco1]

it would be a good idea to QT all the fish and treat with copper.... the only issue is, is that the 120g without all the fish in it may still have ich in the tank.

So once uve treated all the fish in QT and put em all back into the 120g, the ich may come back.

Plus if you start copper treating the 120g it may kill all the algae growth and BB in the tank and live rock.

[LKemp712]

I bought the 120g with all the fish and tons of live rock. I inspected every fish pretty thoroughly but you never know. I took about 80g of the water that was in the tank and added brand new saltwater for the rest as well as taking about 80 lbs of the live rock that was in the tank. I think the mistake was when I added my rock from the 55g but I can't be sure. I just don't know whether to take out all the fish to treat (just incase)and leave the tank to sit or just wait to see if it gets worse or another fish gets a sign of ich.

[alco1]

I would say treat the fish into QT with copper (the one's that are getting infected) but like as I said, when you put that one live rock from the 55 into the 120.... it could have potentially carried the ich with it. even if you remove all the fish out of the 120, there may be ich still living in that 120 tank.

[tonedogz]

Remove the fish to the qt and leave the main tank fallow(without fish) for 6 to 8 weeks to kill off any ich that is in there. Don't shorten the time or you'll be back to square one. it of course would be best to wait the longer period of eight week any inverts and rock can remain. Treat the qt with either copper or hypo, if you choose hypo you will need a refractometer you can't use a hydrometer because there not accurate enough. If you choose copper I personally prefer cupramine by seachem it is not as harsh a form of copper as other products.

[woody390]

Is there a way round ich with no quarantine tank? I think my fish are the suffering too. Is ich fatal or is it something the fish will fight off in time? All my fish are still eating and active but I believe the ich came it's my latest fish I added I know should of quarantined but I had checked on the fish a few weeks on bounce in lfs and seemed healthy enough

[tonedogz]

Originally Posted by woody390

Is there a way round ich with no quarantine tank? I think my fish are the suffering too. Is ich fatal or is it something the fish will fight off in time? All my fish are still eating and active but I believe the ich came it's my latest fish I added I know should of quarantined but I had checked on the fish a few weeks on bounce in lfs and seemed healthy enough

There's not really a way around the ich without a qt especially if you have live rock and inverts. If not treated ich is almost always fatal.

[molliwopp]

Its an extremely easy parasite to cure but in small tanks if nothing is done it can become fatal yes.

[mr_X]

Fish can most certainly fight off ich under the right circumstances. Stress is what lowers their immune systems and then you see the parasite take hold. I have never QT'd any fish and many of them had ich when they were introduced, and all fish made full recoveries, except for one Achilles tang. When I tell you I had a lot of fish in the years I've been doing this, I'm talking hundreds. These fish were sold on a regular basis, so I didn't keep them for very long, but I put them in a system that was connected to my main display.

Changing tanks/coming from the LFS to your tank, ammonia levels/poor parameters, bullying, and undersized tanks are mainly what starts it. Without these factors present, you won't have a problem with ich, even if it's in your display.

[melosu58]

Read these. They will answer your questions and provide you with some treatment options.

An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro

[woody390]

Thanks for your responses! So mr x your saying keep water good and it should sort itself out? Worth buying a uv light? And worth lower salinity?

[Gregcoyote]

Originally Posted by mr_X

Fish can most certainly fight off ich under the right circumstances. Stress is what lowers their immune systems and then you see the parasite take hold. I have never QT'd any fish and many of them had ich when they were introduced, and all fish made full recoveries, except for one Achilles tang. When I tell you I had a lot of fish in the years I've been doing this, I'm talking hundreds. These fish were sold on a regular basis, so I didn't keep them for very long, but I put them in a system that was connected to my main display.

Changing tanks/coming from the LFS to your tank, ammonia levels/poor parameters, bullying, and undersized tanks are mainly what starts it. Without these factors present, you won't have a problem with ich, even if it's in your display.

Well said. A fish can get infested, especially the gills, where you need to intervene by hospitalizing the fish, but that in itself creates stress. Ich can only attach if the fish's slime coat gets too thin (the fish's main line of defense). Stress can cause this thinning and in my view is the main cause of most disease. Surgeonfish have a already thin slime coat and as a result get Ich easier than many other fish. In a proper environment Ich doesn't have a chance. Proof is the lack of fish with the parasite on the natural reef. I haven't seen Ich in 20 years in my system and I really don't QT most of the time.

[molliwopp]

Too some extent i agree but i cant personally put it down to only a stress related disorder where healthy fish cant be effected. I find it hard to believe a fish can fight off a physical parasite such as ich with their slime coat alone. In big tanks yes they have a better chance of avoiding large numbers of spores than those in a smaller tank. In comparison to bacterial infections ich can be one of those exceptions where even healthy fish can easily become over whelmed.

But to contridict what ive just said i remember experiencing it with new fish and the resident fish definitely seemed to have less spots than the carrying new additions so i have to agree that a healthy fish can indeed fight against ich to an extent.

[wrasse326]

I honestly would just treat them in qt and leave the tank empty for 8 or so weeks. I just did this with my 120 gallon. I've had this one sailfin tang for 6 or so months and his ich always comes back. The slightest things stress the fish and it comes back. The slightest temp change it comes back, slightest ph change it comes back, I got tired of one week all the fish are completely free of ich then the next week some are covered in it again. And yes I had fish that always stayed clear because they were plenty healthy but I lost numerous fish that could never fight it off no matter how well I kept up with water quality and temps and all that. In my opinion keeping fish healthy to fight it off doesn't work that well and I'm just going to qt everything for 4-6 weeks every time I get something. But that's just my thoughts

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[LKemp712]

The spot on my tang is now gone, it would seem that it was just stress. Thank you all.

[molliwopp]

Well thats what we like to hear, good news.

[Mebbid]

Originally Posted by LKemp712

The spot on my tang is now gone, it would seem that it was just stress. Thank you all.

The spots from ich can come and go rather quickly. If you put rock from an infested tank into your new tank there is a very real probability that the 120g has ich in it as well.

[mr_X]

Originally Posted by molliwopp

I find it hard to believe a fish can fight off a physical parasite such as ich with their slime coat alone.

Going by the amount of ich cases in this hobby, you would see piles of dead, ich infested fish on the shorelines of every country if they couldn't recover from it. Who's QT'ing the fish in the ocean?

Originally Posted by molliwopp

In big tanks yes they have a better chance of avoiding large numbers of spores than those in a smaller tank.

It's not because they can dodge tomites in larger tanks, it's because generally, larger tanks are less stressful.

[molliwopp]

Originally Posted by mr_X

Going by the amount of ich cases in this hobby, you would see piles of dead, ich infested fish on the shorelines of every country if they couldn't recover from it. Who's QT'ing the fish in the ocean?

Itq's not because they can dodge tomites in larger tanks, it's because generally, larger tanks are less stressful.

Respectfully no you wouldn't see huge numbers of infected fish dead on the shorelines because rivers, lakes or the ocean arnt confinded rectangular shaped glass tanks, there's balance. Fish contracting ich in the wild will be hit by afew spores or 'tomites'which would be an incovenience yes but only an irritation. My other post stated a stressed fish with a thinned out slime coat would have a harder job but my statement remains that healthy fish in confined spaces can sucumbb to ich infestation aswell.

[mr_X]

Their numbers will continue to increase in open water, because there is no QT, or major predator to keep them in check. 1 turns into 50, 50 turns into 2500, and so on since the beginning of ich. I don't understand what you mean by balance. If you are referring to the sheer size of the ocean, then eventually, there will be plenty of ich parasites for every fish. It's just a matter of time. Just like it is in a small tank.
Have you ever seen a single dead fish on a shore with ich spots all over? I haven't. The majority of folks in this hobby have seen ich at least once. So, with those odds, don't you think we would at least see a single fish in our lifetime, infected in the wild?

They are not healthy fish for long if they are in a confined space IMO.