2 down, 2 to go :(

[Roland's Mom]

Hi,
I have an 75 gallon tank. We had 4 really good size Goldfish in there (1 black moor, 1 bubble eye, 1 calico, and 1 state fair special goldfish.) We have had them about 2-3 years, This tank has been set up for about 7 months. Normally we do weekly water changes. I don't know the water stats.

About 2 weeks ago they all started looking really bad. The had white film all over their body, eyes, fins...I went to petco and got the Pimafix, and Melafix (one for fungus and one for bacterial problems) we treated for 7 days and got too busy to do the water change that day. So we did it on the 8 th day. Everybody was doing better so we stopped treating the tank.

So it's been about 5 days since the water change. Last night I noticed the black moor had the white film back all over already. This morning I woke up and found her dead, as well as the state fair special fish. The bubble eye is doing so bad.too. I think she will be gone in a matter of moments. It so sad I almost want to help her on her way even The 4th and last fish the calico seems ok, depressed and her fin is down.

I use to work at a vet clinic, but we never really dealt with fish. I don't think this is ich, as it doesn't look like grains of salt. It more of a film, and in some areas is appears to be peeling off. The area around the gills are frayed. The fins are in pieces. I can't believe they went so quickly. I looked at some pictures of Columnaris. Does this sound possible? And if it is, what can we do to clean our tank etc...Having one fish is kinda sad...

Thanks for any help!

 

[jsoong]

Hi & welcome to AA! Sorry to hear about your loss.

You really must check the water parameters. White peeling film all over may be thickened slime coat, which can be secondary to an ammonia burn. It is possible that something happened with your biofilter & you are going through a mini-cyle. I am just guessing without any test, however, it is never a mistake to do a largish (50%) water change just on spec. Without clean water, you won't have much luck treating diseases, so pwc is the first thing to do.

I am not too fond of external treatments for goldfish. (ie the melafix & primifix). In general, external treatments don't work well with goldies (prob because their body is so thick). Normally, I would identify the disease and treat internally with medicated foods.

Columnaris is possible. Although the lesion is usually fuzzy rather than sheet like. You would also see redness of the fins or under the chins (maybe even point like areas of hemorrhages). Treatemnt is best with a medicated food if the fish is eating, or Kanamycin if you must use a bath. <PS, your calico is not fine. A fish with fins down is not well - & no, this is not from losing the tank mates .... she is ill & is coming down with something.>

At the moment, my best suggestion would be:
1. Do a large water change.
2. Get water quality testing or a test kit. Correct bad water.
If 1 & 2 don't help:
3. Consider using salt to treat for possible external parasite - it is also effective against some bacterial diseases. I would only use a low level salt bath (rather than a high conc salt dip) as the fish appears rather weak - ie 0.1% to start & slowing upping to 0.3% over 3-4 days if the fish appears to be responding. <Be prepared to remove salt if fish appeared stressed even with such low level of salt.>
Salt Treatments: Chicken Soup for Your Fish by Myron Kebus
4. Consider using an antibiotic food - like MediGold or MediKoi. Ideally, you want food with Kanamycin. As a last resort, use kanamycin in a bath.

Good luck with saving the bubble eye & the calico!

BTW - don't worry about clearing the tank or disease for new fish, etc. until you are sure that all your remaining fish are well. I normally don't restock after any illness/death for at least 8 weeks to make sure the tank is OK. <Basically you are QTing your tank & treating its occupants until you are sure no sign of illness remains.>

 

[Roland's Mom]

jsoong~
Thank You for making some recommendations. The bubble eye did pass, We were really hoping to raise these goldfish for a long time. Amazing how big they had gotten. Your further description of Columnaris kinda helps confirm that is may have been what it was. They did also have red fins. I thought it was strange that all around the fins the fishes bodies were bright red too. Also some area's like the black moor's underbelly use to be silvery, but had turned orange red.

Yes I know the calico is not doing ok, but I am hopeful that I can still treat her. I will look into that food. Crazy thing is that I had always used to put salts in the back of my filter, but I had stopped about a month and a half ago. It started building up on the wall behind my tank, and I started thinking it wasn't really doing anything for them. How bad of a mistake could that have been

We have a smaller 35 gallon tank, and maybe now with the Callie only, we should set it up as a hospital tank. I think it may be a good chance to get the other tank disinfected. I'll search around here to find tips on this. Maybe in a while when she is clear of this we'll get 1 more goldfish and keep them in the 35 gallon. I think once cleaned we will put some different freshwater type fish in the 75 gallon tank.

Anyways! Thank you again for your tips. Sad for the loss the of the three and we definitely need to do what we can to get Callie better. I'll be looking around here to see what we can do. I know tommorrow check and change the water!

 

[Freshie In Disguise]

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I love goldfish too. Atleast you still have one left. They can be hardy sometimes and frail other times. I really hope your last one makes it. Calicos are beautiful. Good luck!

 

[jsoong]

If you are thinking columnaris, then definitely treat the callie with antibiotic food. You don't want any trace of virulent columnaris in your tanks. <Columnaris is normal flora in tanks, but is usually harmless & only cause opportunistic infections. Virulent strains that kills do show up & need aggressive eradication. ... This is analogous to E coli. in people, most strain don't cause problem, but once in a while there is virulent strain ....>

 

[Roland's Mom]

Well Callie was set up in the 35 gallon tank. No gravel, no plants, Just her and water! I couldn't find any antibiotic food. so I just got the Pimifix/melafix again. She seems a little better...She is swimming around again and just not sitting.

The 75 gallon tank has been emptied completely. The guy at the pet store recommended cleaning with bleach. I am not sure about that yet, but I'll be searching around here for some different ways to disinfect.

Thanks again for the help jsoong!

 

[jsoong]

keeping fingers crossed for the callie!

As for disinfecting the 75 g, your choices are:
1. Air dry everything for a few weeks - if possible put under hot sun to "bake". this would get rid of most pathogens. <This is of course not 100% ... hence the other chemical methods.>
2. Small items may be disinfected with boiling.
3. You can use bleach at 1:10 dilution. But be sure to rinse things out very well. Some people worry that bleach may remain in porous surfaces (like carbon, rocks, etc) even after rinsing. Personally, I think that airing out for a few days after rinsing is safe. To be extra safe, do the last rinse with a double dose of dechlor.
4. You can use oxygen bleach - ie H2O2. I use this at half strength. Works same as bleach, but no worry about residues since H2O2 breaks down under light.
5. Use potassium permanganate. KMnO4 is the standard disinfectant for ponds (and also use in lfs's) It is safe once you dilute it with water ... so basically a soak & rinse is all you need.