goldfish lost eye

[grace1234]

Hi! I have an apparently healthy 22gal tank with 6 small goldfish, (2 comet and 4 fancy). It has been set up for around 2 years.
One of the fantails has randomly lost his entire eye. It is not a bobble eyed fish. It looked totally fine before it was gone so i doubt it is pop eye. After some googling i was just assuming that he had bashed it on something or perhaps one of the comets got aggressive (although theyve never been aggressive in the 18 months ive had them). As it seemed to be pretty much healed up after a day, and he is still swimming and eating as normal, i have left him to it. However, about 3 days later I have just noticed a single white bump on his side which looks like a spot with a white head.

Firstly, what could the white bump be? Its not ich.

Secondly, could this be related to the missing eye, or just a coincidence?

Separate to all of this, i thought i had seen a little spot of cotton wool on another fantail and so i have treated it with an anti fungus finrot etc general medicine and the week's treatment has just come to an end.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Obv i regularly change water, clean gravel etc and have a large filter for them.

 

[Super_Blueberry]

What are your parameters with that bio load?

 

[grace1234]

I dont have any tests at the moment, will reply as soon as i get one. Also its 28gal not 22 sorry! Any ideas anyway? Still the same this morning, still happily swimming and the white spot looks exactly the same.

 

[jlk]

I dont have any tests at the moment, will reply as soon as i get one. Also its 28gal not 22 sorry! Any ideas anyway? Still the same this morning, still happily swimming and the white spot looks exactly the same.

Can you at least have your water tested at your lfs and let us know what the exact numbers are and what they used to test them?

Without knowing anything in respect to the water conditions, I suggest start by doing 50% water changes every other day until you are able to test the water yourself. Your tank is quite heavily stocked and water quality issues is first thing to consider here.

In respect to the spot, can you possibly post a picture so we can try to ID what it may be?

 

[molliwopp]

Your tank is too small for the fish and the water conditions will deteriorate very quickly. This is probably the reason for the problems youre now having. On this occasion im not going to push it, at least you're trying to help them now.

Has the eye completely gone, could it be possible that its clouded over so much it looks missing?

A picture of this ulcer/spot would help a great deal.

Like has been mentioned above, clean water really does go along way and things like this can usually be avoided but sometimes not but if you arnt preforming the necessary maintenace then its the first thing that gets pointed at as the cause.

I would also start changing more water and more regularly. Not just until you get this sorted out but more water changes period.

Get a picture up when you can and we'll do our best to help.

 

[grace1234]

Heres a couple of pics

 

[grace1234]

Another picture

 

[grace1234]

Don't even get me started, my dad added the two comets while i was away without asking me!
I know the fish are very messy - i already do 30% water change while i gravel vacuum per week, and i have a fluval u4 in there!
Will try and get the readings as soon as i can.

The eye is definately 100% gone, and it was very quickly which is why i thought it was probably physical trauma. the picture is not the most clear, but when looking at it propperly you can see it is a just a golden hole.

The white spot seems to have decreased in size this morning.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[molliwopp]

Well your fish look like theyve seen better days. It looks to me like you have a case of fin rot and the spot looks to me like fungus. Let afew other member comment though as i maybe wrong.

More water the 30% weekly would help a great deal with preventing in but now they have it. Unfortunately treatment is now needed.

 

[pip walters]

There is a good chance that one of the comets has sucked out the eye of the fantail, possibly by accident whilst feeding. It happens unfortunately.

As for the white lump, it could be the start of an ulcer. These are normally caused by the bacteria Aeromonas salminida, which often attacks an injured fiish. It could be the fish has scratched itself and the bacteria has entered. Your fish is largely scaleless, so doesn't have that first hard barrier to protect the skin. If it is getting smaller, then it could be that the fish's immune system is in good condition - testament to your good tank husbandry.

A note on water changes - just my opinion here - we strive to maintain a good balance and stable conditions in our aquaria. The more you change some of the water, the less chance the environment within your aquarium has to stabilise. In my experience, a 25 - 30% water change weekly has always sufficed for coldwater fish I have looked after, in order to dilute the increasing nitrates.

 

[molliwopp]

There is a good chance that one of the comets has sucked out the eye of the fantail, possibly by accident whilst feeding. It happens unfortunately.

As for the white lump, it could be the start of an ulcer. These are normally caused by the bacteria Aeromonas salminida, which often attacks an injured fiish. It could be the fish has scratched itself and the bacteria has entered. Your fish is largely scaleless, so doesn't have that first hard barrier to protect the skin. If it is getting smaller, then it could be that the fish's immune system is in good condition - testament to your good tank husbandry.

A note on water changes - just my opinion here - we strive to maintain a good balance and stable conditions in our aquaria. The more you change some of the water, the less chance the environment within your aquarium has to stabilise. In my experience, a 25 - 30% water change weekly has always sufficed for coldwater fish I have looked after, in order to dilute the increasing nitrates.

With an over stocked tank such as hers it should be receiving more than 30% per week in my opinion and should be 30% twice weekly. In my case of every second day 40% changes keeps the tank stable aswell as clean, as the water in the tank hardly changes from the water coming out of my tap if at all.

 

[jlk]

With an over stocked tank such as hers it should be receiving more than 30% per week in my opinion and should be 30% twice weekly. In my case of every second day 40% changes keeps the tank stable aswell as clean, as the water in the tank hardly changes from the water coming out of my tap if at all.

I agree as well but I would suggest changing 50% at least 2-3x a week with the current stock and unknown water quality issues. The commons/comets really should be rehomed as soon as possible before there are more issues.

The fish with the missing eye is showing some signs of healing (although she appears very stressed) but she really needs lots of healthy water and a safe, stress-free environment as she is now physically disabled due to her visual impairment. Healthy water, nutritious diet and safe environment are vital to her recovery. Please ask any questions!

 

[pip walters]

How have we come to the conclusion that the tank is overstocked? The original question states 6 small goldfish in an established tank of 28 gallons... that's 128 litres.... with a large filter and regular water changes. If the fish were 10" each, then yeah, but they currently have plenty of room to swim and to grow.

You could keep 6x 5" fish in that size tank with good filtration and good husbandry and still get more growth.

I wouldn't class a one-eyed fish as physically disabled as it is perfectly capable of swimming and eating, even with no eyes. It appears to have healed very quickly - which they do when an eye is lost through non-disease reasons (good testament to the management of the OPs tank) and I don't see any bacterial problems affecting the fins. The first pic shows a fantail that doesn''t have the most amazing 'fan' tail, but apart from that, fins look ok and are held erect.

 

[jlk]

How have we come to the conclusion that the tank is overstocked? The original question states 6 small goldfish in an established tank of 28 gallons... that's 128 litres.... with a large filter and regular water changes. If the fish were 10" each, then yeah, but they currently have plenty of room to swim and to grow.

You could keep 6x 5" fish in that size tank with good filtration and good husbandry and still get more growth.

I wouldn't class a one-eyed fish as physically disabled as it is perfectly capable of swimming and eating, even with no eyes. It appears to have healed very quickly - which they do when an eye is lost through non-disease reasons (good testament to the management of the OPs tank) and I don't see any bacterial problems affecting the fins. The first pic shows a fantail that doesn''t have the most amazing 'fan' tail, but apart from that, fins look ok and are held erect.

Perhaps you are viewing different pictures than the rest of us?

The caudal fin is drooping and this is not the result of peduncle placement. In both pictures, the fish's dorsal fin is clamped to her the body.

Completely missing an eye is certainly a physical disability to the fish. No one stated the fish would have an inability to swim or eat but it WILL have a more difficult time than its visually intact and more aggressive tankmates. There will be an adjustment period while she adapts to the disability and she may have swimming and perception issues.

Suggesting this tank suitably stocked with multiple commons/comets and fancies, including a disabled fancy, is a bit preposterous, IMO. You are welcome to proffer advice based on your commercial experience but this is not applicable to home aquarium situation presented here. At best, these fish will survive but not thrive. Rehoming the single tail goldfish will help the situation and reduce the bioload of the tank.

Advice presented for home aquaria is intended for fish to have happy, healthy environments that they can grow and thrive in. Appropriate stocking and adequate water maintenance plays a huge part of this. I am sure commercial interests vary immensely and perhaps your stocking advice stems from this as fish are produced in quantity and for profit in a short duration of time rather than the pets that most aquarists keep for life in their living rooms in artificial, closed systems that require care and attention.

 

[pip walters]

I concede I was thinking of a fish in a picture of another thread we have both posted on.

However, in my opinion, the fish in this post is of poor breed quality and to me, the caudal and dorsal appear somewhat malformed, which could explain the 'droopiness'. the pelvic fins appear fine - a clamped fish will normally clamp all fins. The first ray of the split caudal fin appear to be at an almost 90 degree angle to the back of the fish, suggesting possible mechanical damage in early life or genetic deformity. This fish also does not have the classic egg shaped body of a fantail or oranda, it appears elongated, suggesting to me that it may be closer to a comet type with a twin tail.

I offer advice based on my experience of keeping fish in the past AND my experience in both the retail and wholesale and farming of fish. If you are going to use words like 'preposterous' to describe my suggestions, then please feel free to add reasoned argument and explain why you feel I am wrong. I believe that many things I have learned and continue to learn and experience in my working with fish outside of the aquarium hobby, are extremely relevant and applicable to the care of fish in any closed environment.

It is all very well telling a member that their tank is overstocked, but please advise them as to why you think that is the case.

I agree that the single tailed fish should not be kept with fancies due to their relative ability to get to food more quickly. However, it is not impossible to keep single and twin tailed varieties together. To state that the one-eyed fish will have a 'more difficult time' is pure assumption and anthropomorphic. A fish with one eye will not have swimming issues nor perception issues as they have an advanced receptor based lateral line system that enables them to navigate and find food items in turbid conditions and even complete darkness - some fish, as I am sure you know, have evolved to live without any eyes at all.

With regard to the multiple fish, my opinion on the stocking is, as I said, that these fish, which the OP describes as small, are in an aquarium where they currently have plenty of space to swim, well filtered and maintained water quality and are well fed by a caring owner. Once again, anthropomorphism is thrown in with the survive and thrive comments. This phrase has been thrown around the hobby for many years, yet we see countless examples of fish, in aquaria that many hobbyists would consider way too small, swimming, eating, growing and remaining healthy - is this not thriving? Goldfish as we know them have for many centuries been domesticated by humans and as such have evolved to adapt to totally unnatural conditions and as such, show higher resistance to adverse environmental conditions.

None of the advice I have offered will affect the happiness of any fish, because fish don't feel happiness - happiness is a human perception. My advice is, however, aimed at the long term health of fish, whatever size of their artificial environment. My stocking advice comes from my knowledge of fish and their physiology, not human perception of their mental well-being. Oh, you should also be aware that fish produced in quantity for profit in a short duration of time are subject to intensive care and attention far exceeding that of those in home aquaria.... as a keeper of goldfish, where do you think your precious 'pets' come from?

To conclude - if you can produce a stress-free environment in a home aquaria or any other artificial environment, then please share your secrets with the world.

 

[jlk]

I offer advice based on my experience of keeping fish in the past AND my experience in both the retail and wholesale and farming of fish.

Frankly, I do not understand your need to incessantly expound upon your extensive experience in aquatics. In some posts, its 13 years while in others its 15 or 30 years. As per you own words, you stated that (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/cycling-a-tank-is-it-necessary-284855.html):
"I don't actually keep fish myself- I had aquarium once, but I have worked with fish all my life." In another thread (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/article-on-stocking-28738.html), you mention your brief singular foray of personally keeping a 15g tank as a teenager.

We are not opening a discussion of subterranean and nocturnal creatures that have developed unique adaptations through the process of natural selection to compensate for lack of visual perception. Discussion of your stocking beliefs based upon the one inch per gallon notion have also been well covered in various threads and it will be difficult to find concensus that keeping fish, especially fish with large growth potential, in such manner is appropriate.

A fish that has been partially or completely blinded is at a distinct disadvantage- in a natural environment, it would not survive. In our tanks, compensation needs to be made to ensure the fish is able to consume adequate food, is not in a potentially harmful environment and is not a further victim to harassment or injury from its tank mates. I have kept visually impaired fancies in the past and presently keep a telescope that is completely missing an eye- the fact they have a 'more difficult time' is not an assumption but observation made from experience as changes were necessitated to ensure their health and safety.

As I have already mentioned, rehoming the single tail goldfish will be beneficial in this situation as will increasing the water change schedule. Please stick to the discussion of the Op's fish and the concerns related to it. Feel free to open a new thread discussing home aquaria stocking limits, fish happiness, subterranean fish or what ever you feel is deemed worthy of discussion.

 

[Roz]

Heres a couple of pics

View attachment 212348

The poor little guy.
How is he going now?

 

[pip walters]

Frankly, I do not understand your need to incessantly expound upon your extensive experience in aquatics. In some posts, its 13 years while in others its 15 or 30 years. As per you own words, you stated that (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/cycling-a-tank-is-it-necessary-284855.html):
"I don't actually keep fish myself- I had aquarium once, but I have worked with fish all my life." In another thread (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/article-on-stocking-28738.html), you mention your brief singular foray of personally keeping a 15g tank as a teenager.

We are not opening a discussion of subterranean and nocturnal creatures that have developed unique adaptations through the process of natural selection to compensate for lack of visual perception. Discussion of your stocking beliefs based upon the one inch per gallon notion have also been well covered in various threads and it will be difficult to find concensus that keeping fish, especially fish with large growth potential, in such manner is appropriate.

A fish that has been partially or completely blinded is at a distinct disadvantage- in a natural environment, it would not survive. In our tanks, compensation needs to be made to ensure the fish is able to consume adequate food, is not in a potentially harmful environment and is not a further victim to harassment or injury from its tank mates. I have kept visually impaired fancies in the past and presently keep a telescope that is completely missing an eye- the fact they have a 'more difficult time' is not an assumption but observation made from experience as changes were necessitated to ensure their health and safety.

As I have already mentioned, rehoming the single tail goldfish will be beneficial in this situation as will increasing the water change schedule. Please stick to the discussion of the Op's fish and the concerns related to it. Feel free to open a new thread discussing home aquaria stocking limits, fish happiness, subterranean fish or what ever you feel is deemed worthy of discussion.

Read my posts properly and you will see the correct figure pertainging to my years of experience - better still, hve a look at my profile. I only 'expound' when you (only you) throw doubt...... what do you want, copies of my qualifications; letters from past employers?? - clearly, disagreeing with you is not the done thing.

I am sorry if I have impounded on your supremacy on this area of the forum, but just because I don't keep fish at home, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I'd have thought caring for a large number of aquaria at the same time may stand for something.

Having worked with fish outside the hobby, it is also possible to see how the aquatics industry works and believe me, in many respects it is like the fashion industry... the industry tells you something and you instantly take it as gospel.

I can only assume that when you tell me to keep posts to the original posters question that this rule only applies to me, or are you not a moderator? There are many, MANY posts on the forum to which that would apply.

Yes you have mentioned re-homing the single tailed fish - trouble is you haven't offered any meaningful reason or explanation for such action or how exactly it may help the situation. You also mention water quality, which, it would seem from the posters posts, has not been an issue.

On the issue of disablement, perhaps if you keep 'disabled' fish and have 'experience' of this, then offer advice and encouragement to the poster and other readers as to how you made the aquarium 'safe'.

If you think a one eyed fish in the wild is instantly doomed to death, then you clearly have little knowledge of fish physiology, nor of fish actually living in the wild.

You are very good at making statements of fact without explanation or detail to back them up.

 

[Roz]

This really isn't helping the OP and the little sick fish under his or her care.

 

[Zagz]

This is a final warning to keep all personal attacks out of the thread. It serves no purpose to the op or the op`s issues. Future personal attacks will result in the posts being removed and the thread being closed.