Help>.< My fish are suffering. :(

[VulpuixScyther]

Hi! I'm new here because I want to get into the fish keeping hobby.

I started out with a Crayfish that I caught in Oklahoma at Turner Falls. My boyfriend and I bought two minnows for him to eat but Yoshi didn't eat them soooo I had two unexpected pet minnows. Their names were Finley and Gimpy.

About 5 or 6 months later, Yoshi died. I suspect that I stressed him out too much before he molted (because I thought he was drowning ?) and he wasn't able to molt and so he grew too large for his exoskeleton and kicked the bucket. :/ RIP Yoshi ?.

But before that happened, I upgraded to a 10 gallon and on the same day I bought two other fish. I bought a Black Molly and a Dalmatian Molly. (Atlas (male) and Paradox (female) ). Yoshi didn't try and eat the minnows but he did however, chase around the two mollies quite a bit.
Paradox began to bully Atlas and it took them awhile to finally start getting along. They would fight all the time but after a couple months they wouldn't stop following each other around.

I read somewhere online that it's best to have two female mollies so then I bought a gold molly right after Yoshi died to compensate. So this is where things get a little messy.

1. I didn't cycle my tank :/ but I didn't think I had to because I'm pretty sure I used the water from my old 3 gallon and filled up the rest of the 10 gallon with chlorinated tap.
2. My 2 year old nephews spilled an entire container of fish food in the tank and my brother (their dad) cleaned the tank out because I was gone! i actually told him to clean out as much food as he could and put the old tank water back in there because when I had it tested the levels were fine, except my hardness was a little high but not dangerously so.
3. When Yoshi died, he left an exoskeleton behind and I didn't take it out of the tank, thinking it would be good for the water with how much calcium is in the shell.

But boy was I wrong.
I didn't check my levels before I decided to buy Athena (the gold lyre tail molly). I did notice however, that Atlas (the black Molly) was losing color in his tail but all in all they ate their food and seemed relatively happy...

After I bought Athena I noticed some white spots on her tail and thought it was itch so I bought medication for it. then the biggest minnow died and he was completely bloodshot as if he was poisoned and he probably was.
At this point my pH is at 8 and every thing is completely out of whack....

But I continued to do water changes and medicate the tank. Athena wasn't getting better so I stopped medicating the tank and the l"itch" didn't even spread...

I got really discouraged... I'm going to admit that apart from feeding them and getting algae off the glass, I didn't do much in the way of water changes even though I knew I should have been doing them every day until my levels were better. *sigh* so paradox died. I'm going to add a picture of what she looks like.

Also, Athena has fin rot, a curved spine and a bulge in her abdomen....

Atlas is continuing to lose color in his tail...

I feel like such a terrible Aqua mom and I need help... What do I do?

As of right now, I have a 10 gallon tank with a minnow and two really sick mollies. There's a heater, thermometer, filter and bubble wall. I'm doing a full water change tonight and am going to try my hardest to fish-in cycle. I put in chlorinator and aquarium salt and wash out the carbon filter and leave it out for a couple of hours. I had a live plant but it was dying so I took it out and now it's sitting on my window sill. I have gravel for substrate and fake plants.

I've done so much research it's crazy and I really want to save these little guys Any advice would be much appreciated. And here is a picture of my now deceased Paradox.




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[StrangelyNormal]

Okay. I hope someone with more experience with fish illness answers, but I figured I would give it a go for you.

When you introduced the crayfish, you could've introduced pathogens from the outside world. Obviously the water in lakes and ponds isn't filtered or chlorinated, so all sorts of crazy pathogens and bacteria could be living in it. It's the same reason you wouldn't drink lake water. Chasing around the mollies leads to stress, so therefore if he had anything on him it was setting it up for them to get sick.

1. Tanks need something people refer to as "Beneficial bacteria". The bacteria lives in the substrate, decorations, and filter - not usually the water column. The bacteria breaks down ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates until you do your weekly water change. So next time you need to cycle a tank, keep it in mind and research how to do fishless cycling, as it's usually the better option for both owner and fish - since none of the water really holds bacteria, and old tank water is primarily good for acclimating fish switching from tank to tank. Next, get a good water conditioner like API Stress Coat or Seachem Prime, since the quality of the water conditioner can make a difference. If you don't have test kits, it would be a good idea to get those too - the liquid kind.
2. Leftover food contributes to ammonia, and since you were already doing a fish-in cycle, the ammonia would've spiked. So the only way to get rid of ammonia until the bacteria forms is to do a water change - otherwise the water becomes foul and water quality plummets. Bad water quality and high ammonia leads to stress, and stress leads to illness and bad bacteria.
3. I don't know anything about crayfish, but I wouldn't consider that a good thing because of the above - ammonia.

Now, down to the mollies. To me, that appears to be dropsy, but maybe someone else has a better idea. Dropsy is basically an internal infection affecting their organs & likely causing organ failure. The bad water quality, ammonia/stress, and the introduction of pathogens/bacteria could've set the stage for it. Dropsy is probably why their spine is curved (fluid build up), their abdomens are swollen, and their fins are disappearing. As far as I know it's usually blamed on a bacterial infection. I don't know what you could do for dropsy. Perhaps you could try a medication like Kanaplex, but since Kanaplex is not usually available in most pet stores it would take a while to get to you. Furan-2 is probably another option, but the cure rate for dropsy is notably low even with antibiotics.

Also considering the fluid retention possibility, I wouldn't keep in the aquarium salt since it may cause even more fluid retention (Epsom salt helps with fluid reduction), but don't rush off to do things prematurely as it will stress them more. Wait and see if others answer - I'm not experienced with dropsy. I personally have never experienced it, but I do know it's usually fatal if it is there, and a swollen abdomen is a hallmark sign of it.

I totally understand if you are upset about your fish and I hate to be the bearer of bad news.. However, the best would be to not let their deaths be in vain and doing more research so you never deal with this again.

 

[VulpuixScyther]

I see what you're saying. I feel terrible.

If this is dropsy, should I euthanize them? Are they suffering? Or should I let nature take its course?


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[StrangelyNormal]

You might want to clean out the entire tank after they pass to ensure the bacterial infection is gone (but do not use bleach). Just thoroughly clean everything, since we don't know if it was caused by ammonia or bacteria or both. You might want to separate the one fish who doesn't look sick in the hopes maybe it won't be infected, but you'd likely need some sort of spare container/tank for that.

You could do euthanasia if you like or see how it pans out naturally. I tend to give them a shot if the sick fish is not with healthy fish, though it sounds like most of your tank is sick.

 

[absolutangel04]

There are some long posts on here! But, I will do my best to help.
Now, I am just trying to help you as honestly as I can, so don't take anything we say too personally. It is great that you are coming here for help trying to do the best thing for your fish. We will work with you and try to get you a tank that is in working order that you can enjoy.
First off, you already know that you needed to cycle the tank. I suggest taking a look at the pinned posts in the "getting started" section for some advice about that. Fish in cycling is not that big of a deal, you just need to stay on top of water changes.
Secondly comes some hard news. A 3g tank was not ever enough space for a cray fish and those fish. Too much waste, and not enough space. I am glad to hear you have upgraded, but that brings some more hard news, mollies get way too big and active for a 10g. I think your main problems are just simply too many animals in too small of a space. Mollies actually get pretty decently sized and need more like a 20g tank minimum. These issues were exacerbated by the fish food spillage issue. The bloat and bent spine could be a symptom of eating too much, congenital issues, dropsy, or the fish might just be very gravid. Dropsy is typically identified by a pinecone appearance where all the scales stick out. It is typically fatal. I am not sure which issue your fish has, but it could be any of these.
Now for my suggestions on fixing this. First off, do a huge water change. I don't really know if the crayfish introduced anything extra in your water system. I have my doubts, but regardless, it would be a good idea to very thoroughly clean your tank after that fish food spill. I am sorry to say, but I suggest either getting a 20g tank, or else rehoming your mollies once they are more healthy and trying again with fish more suitable to the tank size. I am not sure what kind of minnows you got, they may or may not make good long terms residents of a 10g. Depends.
For now though, focus on getting the tank clean and keeping the water nice. Do you happen to own a test kit? Fin rot will typically die down with clean water. If it persists, get some meds for it. For now though, I think your primary objective is clean water.

 

[VulpuixScyther]

Yeah, I upgraded the tank because he was getting bigger. When we caught him he was just a baby cray so then I got him the 10 gallon.

I've thought about taking them to someone who is a lot more experienced with fish but unfortunately I don't know anyone like that and I was afraid that if I took them back to Petsmart or to another fish store, that store would just kill them.

I wondered about the tank being too small. I got the 10 gallon because I wanted to start with a smaller tank and work my way up. I want to eventually own a rather large reef tank and then once I get the hang of salt water I would like to own a separate sea horse breeding tank. But obviously I'm not expecting to have either for quite a few years.

I did a full water change last night, vacuumed and rinsed the gravel and sterilized the carbon filter (of which I took out of the filter) and the decorations. I left the heater, bubble wall and filter itself alone though. The gravel was absolutely filthy and I wasn't able to clear all of the junk out but a good portion of it is gone. I'm going to continue to do water changes and vacuum the gravel until I'm sure all of the exoskeleton and extra food is out.



There's a picture of the tank, too.

I don't have a water testing kit right now but I can certainly get one. Is there a specific kit you guys recommend?

So far I know that I need;
-a water testing kit
-an aquarium light (When we first bought the tank I just had black lights. I thought they would be okay since they were for the neon black light fish but I did some reading and found out that they weren't good for the tank so they're off most of the time)
-quality chlorinator
-maybe a bio or sponge filter?
-a tank upgrade.


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[VulpuixScyther]

As for my mollies, I haven't seen the black one but the one with the curved spine (she's in the picture of my tank) is pretty active and so is the minnow. The minnow is a rosey minnow by the way, so it's just a feeder minnow but I did notice that they get pretty big!


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[absolutangel04]

If you can get your fish healthy again, a store should take them and not kill them. If you bring them unhealthy fish though, they will likely have to put them down.
For a test kit, get a liquid one. It will help you know what is going on with your water chemistry reliably. Usually the API one is the most commonly available, but a different brand is fine too if you see one.

 

[StrangelyNormal]

More advice for you - lovely post on Molly tank size by the way, I was not sure on it - the bigger the tank the more stable the environment. It creates more of a closed system. Think of it as a new city. The more inhabitants (bacteria) the more efficient they will become.
Sponge/bio filters such as aquaclears do the trick in small to medium sized tanks. You don't want something solely carbon based in the event of using medication. The bacteria will be on the carbon pad, but you will need to remove carbon for medication to be effective.

Mollies and livebearers aren't my specialty, so I'm happy Angel came in.

The bent spine could also be growth deformities from the ammonia and small tank, or possibly vitamin issues. there's a slew of things it could be. I thought all fish had swollen bellies, my apologies.

 

[VulpuixScyther]

Thank you so much for all of the help! I want to try and invest in a 20 or 30 gallon tank and a water testing kit. They're all still alive and fairly active. I took the carbon filter out and now all that's in there is the sponge that came with it. I'm crossing my fingers.


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[Caliban07]

Thank you so much for all of the help! I want to try and invest in a 20 or 30 gallon tank and a water testing kit. They're all still alive and fairly active. I took the carbon filter out and now all that's in there is the sponge that came with it. I'm crossing my fingers.


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Hi vulpix

Welcome to the hobby. If I was going to give some advice I would say that your next lot of fish would benefit from some live plant's in the tank. Live plants help to keep the water cleaner and provide cover and security for fish.

I would also suggest reducing the size of your gravel. It's very easier for waste particles and uneaten fish food to fall to the bottom and get trapped. Perhaps a finer gravel of sand would be easier to clean as well as again provide a more natural feel for the fish.

A nice looking background or painting the back of the tank will also make the fish feel more secure and reduce stress levels and encourage natural behavior.

Good luck


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[VulpuixScyther]

Update:
They've all died except for (ironically) the minnow Gimpy. He seems happier. I think he planned this. ?. In any case, I'm sad but want to do it right this time. I'm looking into buying a bigger tank, like a 30 to 50 gallon. I need a tank and a stand! I have a place for it all though. I've done some more research and I know what I need to get for the tank. :b It's going to take me awhile but I don't mind. I'm pretty excited for the new start.


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