High ammonia issues

[Athena18]

Hey all,

I'm having trouble cutting down the ammonia in my Cichlid tank. It's 65 gallons with 6 Cichlids and 1 pleco. All of the fish are only 1-2 inches right now, so I don't think I'm overstocked. I believe the tank is still cycling. My pH is about 7.4 and the ammonia is reading 4ppm. I've done roughly 50% water changes the past two days and the ammonia levels haven't dropped. Weird right?

I did water changes on my other two goldfish tanks and the ammonia levels are down to 2ppm and .5ppm. I know 2 is still high, but it was above 4. Also a couple of my goldfish have white spots on the fins. They don't look quite like ick to me, but I'm not sure. I know they've been stressed for about a week due to the tank chemistry. Everyone's acting pretty much normal and only 2 fish have the spots each on separate tanks. Should I treat for ick just in case?


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[Losthopes]

Are you using tap water or RO water?


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[MICEY]

some tests give false highs if you have certain chemicals in your tap water try bring a sample to your lfs and have them test it

 

[tazzy_toon]

Ick kinda looks like salt! You could be seeing damage from ammonia! Have you tested you water out of the tap? I had a mini cycle in my tank and used Prime water conditioner at double dose and it brought down my ammonia readings right away! Are you getting any nitrite or nitrate readings?

 

[Athena18]

I'm using tap water. My tap water doesn't test positive for ammonia and I pre-treat it before adding it to the aquarium. Mostly because my tap water pH is like a 5.

I don't think the ammonia is a false high as I've done both liquid and strip tests on all tanks. Both tests put the ammonia in the stress to high range for the tanks.

Once the ammonia levels get lower will the fish heal from any stress damage? If it's not ick, I was also thinking possible fin rot.




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[Athena18]

I bought the tank stabilizer stuff but not the prime. I guess I'll grab some and try a double dose too.


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[Athena18]

Also the nitrites and nitrates are barely registering on my test strips. Haven't done the liquid test for them since the strips don't seem to show them. This is why I assume my tank is still cycling.


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[dalto]

You need to keep doing large water changes until the ammonia reaches an acceptable level. Test before and after a water change. Removing 50% of the water and replacing it with clean water should reduce the ammonia level by 50% as well. If it doesn't, I would take your water somewhere else to have it tested to validate your test readings.

 

[BigRedsReefs10]

Test a few hours after the water change to get more accurate results. And no the damage is irreversible, you are significantly shortening their lives by using them to cycle the tank.

 

[Athena18]

Well thanks and hopefully they'll be ok for some years still if I get it all under control soon. Too be fair, I'm not the bad guy here either as I had no clue about cycling the tank or anything before getting the fish. Between my boyfriend's supposed knowledge and the fish store, I ended up in a bad situation. Just trying to do my best to correct it now.

From some research, I also suspect that my ammonia levels aren't as high as the readings say. Apparently most tests only show total ammonia in tank and can't differentiate between free and total ammonia. I've been diligent with adding ammonia removing agents, etc.


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[MonkeyMonk86]

Someone will need to clarify this: I found this info in an Amazon review of an ammonia indicator.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000255R5G?pc_redir=1408507817&robot_redir=1
Paragraph from a Review of product by j Clark
"Now for the nitty-gritty: I believe so-called "ammonia remover" products bind ammonia into ammonium. While I tried these, I never saw a substantial drop in ammonia from it. My thinking is that these products attempt to reduce ammonia, but the problem is that ammonium breaks into ammonia at higher pH, and higher temperature. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do about that. I've read on the Internet that the salicylate test does not reflect "total ammonia" (a term that refers to ammonium + ammonia), but it really does - both according to the API instructions and by looking at the chemistry, the test creates conditions to convert all ammonium to ammonia. It measures the total. The seachem measures purely free ammonia according to their site."

2 Paragraphs from an unidentified customer:
"Second, this is the exact same sensor material used in Seachem MultiTest Ammonia Test Kit. That test only tests for harmful free ammonia (NH3), but to be honest the test is a bit of a pain with having to time the test.. I never liked pulling it out, having to deal with the tiny little disks in the container, and waiting 15 or 30 minutes for the results.. but this alert is already ready to read (the color scale is not the same however, because of the longer "exposure" time).

Third, kits like the API Ammonia Test Kit measure TOTAL ammonia (NH3 and NH4). If you have chloramines in your water you WILL have tend to have false positive readings because of the ammonium formed when you use dechlorinator on your water (such as Seachem Prime. It doesn't mean you water is dangerous, it simply means that the chloramine has been converted into ammonium, and the API test can't tell the difference. I've had my tap water test as high as 2ppm for "ammonia" with the API test right after a water change - the Seachem test would show 0. The doesn't mean the Seachem test is wrong or inaccurate, it's just more specific - just like this alert disk.

Because of the issue with chloramines in my tap water cycling a new tank is a frustrating experience trying to use the API kit. I would constantly see positive "ammonia" readings while I could see my nitrites had spiked and had gone to 0 and I was seeing increasing amounts of nitrates, but using these disks simplifies the process. A partial WC can be done as the disk starts to turn blue in a fish-in cycle (or if you are dosing ammonia for a fishless cycle, you can add ammonia a little at a time until the disk turns dark blue), and the effect can be seen quickly as the disk changes color from blue to green (or even almost yellow). I think it's one of the best products available when you can't rely on the total ammonia readings from the API kit."

I hope this helps for understanding Ammonia reading. I also hope someone can clarify this a little more.



(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

I had all kinds of problems with my ammonia readings. I tested my tap water and it had a positive reading. I tested it straight from the tap and after treating with Prime and waiting 24 hours. I did frequent water changes as advised by many people on this site. I bought an ammonia alert on amazon for $8 which is something you hang on the inside of the tank and it changes colors based on the amount of free ammonia. Once I used this along with the water changes, I felt much better even when my liquid test showed positive ammonia. Feeling better, I became way less paranoid and stopped doing all these different things trying to correct the problems which probably caused more problems.

 

[Athena18]

Ya I'm using the alert tags now and while my ammonia is still high, it's not showing as Toxic.

I think things are going ok now. Thanks!


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