How Important is the Salt when heat treating Ich ?

[joannde]

Well, I was hoping it would be a long long time before I had to post on this forum but I've noticed a couple of white spots (smaller than a grain of salt) on a couple of fish, so I'm figuring its Ich and I want to start the treatment as soon as I should.


1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

Platy and Betta. VERY SMALL white spots, mostly on the tails (or perhaps its just easier to see it there).

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 10
Temp = 81 / 82

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

30 gallon; cycled with biospira; fish added over past 2 weeks

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Whisper HOB - for 35 to 60 gal tank

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

2 dwarf coral platies = 0.5 in each
4 small platies = 0.75 in each
6 panda cories = 0.75 in each
8 neon tetras = 0.5 in each
1 male betta = 1.5 in each

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Did PWC before adding fish 2 weeks ago. Have not done one since - parameters are good and don't want to lose good bac since 3 cories and 6 neons were added to bioload yesterday

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

6 platies and 2 neons added 2 wks ago
3 panda cories added 1 wk ago
1 betta added thursday
3 additional pandas and 6 additional neons added yesterday

All acclimated over 1.5 - 2 hrs. Floated bags, added less than 1/8th of a cup of tank water every 3 -5 minutes until approx 50:50 mix obtained. Removed fish to net before adding to tank (no LFS water entered tank)


8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Its pretty much all new

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

Aquarian floating pellets, Hikari Micro Pellets, Tetramin flaks and occassonal freeze dried bloodworms. Betta is fed Hikari Betta Bio-Gold

Questions:

should I start turning the temp up now ? I have a Stealth 100W submersible (nonglass) heater. If I raise the temp on the thermostat 2 degrees how fast should I expect the water temp to rise ? is it too fast ??

is salt necessary ? What impact does that have on the ability to kill off the ich ? Would I need to leave the temps at 86 for more than 2 wks w/out the salt ? I'm worried about the neons and the panda cories

Thanks !

 

[rich311k]

Yes start turning the temperature up. You want it over 86f. Go slowly a degree every five hours or so. I never use salt to treat for ich. Others swear by it. It is up to you, but the amount you need to add is small and shouldn't hurt your fish.

By the way changing water will not effect you bacteria, so change away. The bacteria clings to gravel and filter media. It does not live in the water column.

 

[joannde]

ok - I guess I'll change the water asap so taht I have less to heat up - could I boil some water to add to my tap water to equalize the temperaters before the PWC ?

 

[rich311k]

Why not just use your hot water tap?

 

[joannde]

The tapwater goes through a water softener so I usually use water from the outside hose. I guess I COULD use hot tap water but then sodium would increase and its the choride that's useful when you add salt for Ich , right ?

edit - plus my hose from outside reaches the tank since the tank is right near the back door- from the tap I'd have to carry all that water (and I'm a 100 lb weakling LOL)

 

[Menagerie]

By the way changing water will not effect you bacteria, so change away. The bacteria clings to gravel and filter media. It does not live in the water column.

Agreed.

I'm not sure why you want to add hot water to the tank. The heater you have will be fine and you want the temp to come up gradually.

I always use salt and heat--the amount of salt needed is so small, the osmolarity of the water is changed enough to affect the ich parasite, but not the fish.

 

[joannde]

Thanks re the salt - small enough to not affect the neons and pandas ? The neons are so sensitive - and the pandas - well it would break my heart if anything happened to them

re the hot water - just wanted to get the PWC water up to the 82 degrees the tank is now at. If I add water from the hose it will be approx 75 degrees and drop everything down - plus I don't want to give the fish temp shock by adding new water that is that much colder then the tank temp (or do I just worry too much ! ?)

 

[Menagerie]

or do I just worry too much ! ?

It's not as though you are taking out 75% of the 82*F water and adding in 60*F water. PWC of 25% will be mild and you won't lose that much heat--the heater will kick on, but that is a small price to pay instead of boiling water

Thanks re the salt - small enough to not affect the neons and pandas ? The neons are so sensitive - and the pandas - well it would break my heart if anything happened to them

I cannot guarantee that they will come out of this treatment unscathed. Neons are sensitive to poor water quality and the small amount of salt will not affect the water quality. Pandas are also sensitive little buggers and I used to tell people to take out their cory cats and treat with heat separately, but that's impractical for most and unnecessary--members would report back that their cories, pandas included, made it through the heat and salt treatment. If you are uncomfortable, just go with heat, I like both because I know it works and I have used it on numerous fish--sensitive and hardy. Keep in mind when the temp is raised, the water will have less ability to absorb oxygen and the surface agitation may need to be increased if you see the fish hanging out at the surface. More surface agitation may upset your betta, and now I’m the one doing the worrying for you

 

[joannde]

Since I wanted high oxygenation for the nitrite converting bacteria (can never have enough of those guys !) the water level has already been 1" below the filter outflow. Knowing the betta isn't all that happy about currents I had set up some floating silk plants (actually they are "ground plants" that I removed the weight from and draped over the crossbar) for him to get out of it. There are also lots of "rock / cave" ornaments for him to hang out in. The floating plants are by far his favorite spot - as is one silk plant that is actually at the bottom of the tank. he has another favorite resting spot but I don't know where it is - but its a good one because I can never find him when he's there ! Thanks for the concern over him Bettas catch on quickly and he already begs from me and knows exactly where to hover so I can drop him his special pellets.

I'm going to do the PWC in a couple of hours - got too busy at work to do it mid-day as I had hoped.

Thanks for the advice

 

[Menagerie]

Sounds like you are taking great care of all your fish. I hope the treatment goes quickly and smoothly.