Ich and heat treatment - up to 87 and still losing fish

[Isabella17]

We have slowly been raising the temperature and are now at 87 degrees - was at 86 yesterday (according to my cooking digital thermometer...I would assume this would be the most accurate correct? over the heater setting and the stick on thermometer).

However, I lost 3 fish again this morning. How quickly should this be working? I keep reading that once you hit 86, the Ich will fall right off. Our poor female guppy, ready to burst too, was covered in it and was unable to handle the ich (and possibly the temp) I guess.

We only have a few more fish left and I am worried we will lose them all also, even tho we are now at a desired temperature.

Any other suggestions? I will be doing another 25% water change today also. How often should I be doing a pwc?

Thanks!

 

[neilanh]

Unfortunately, the temperature isn't a magical success point.

The short answer is this. All the higher temperature does is to accelerate the lifecycle of the Ich. So, in essence, things almost always get better before they get worse. The key is to identify early the signs of ich and react immediately.

Basically, if your fish had ich for a week already, then they're going to be in worse case at the peak of the infestation than if they had just acquired it when you raised the temp.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, there's really nothing more you can do at this point, just wait it out. Make sure the fish have plenty of oxygen, and let the temp hold. The temp accerlerates their life cycle, and then once they get in the 3d stage, which is a free swimming stage, they can't survive in the higher temps.

Keep checking them, but let the temperature stay above 85 for 2 weeks after you can see no more visible indications. This is to help ensure you have gotten rid of hopefully all of it.

 

[FishEggs]

..........So, in essence, things almost always get better before they get worse.........

are you sure you didnt mean get worse b4 they get better?

 

[Isabella17]

Thanks guys (even FishEggs for the little laugh). I have read and know what you are saying neilanh, but watching the sad demise of these poor little fish in our care has made me forget all the advice and info I have been reading the past week on these boards (oh why, oh why didn't I find this forum earlier!).

We only have one original fish left (along with 2 ghost shrimp..hanging on fine regardless of the high temp) and 3 zebras (pretty sure we are going to lose one of them soon tho). Our original female guppy is acting pretty good though I am worried I am starting to see some white spots again when only a few days ago it seemed they had dropped off. My eyes could be crossing on me tho!

Maybe I should go with Oscars next time?? Huh?!?! I have always wanted them but for 2 things: having to feed them live fish (not really too disturbing for me....but well, not sure I want the children that up and personal with the circle of life....maybe nowadays you can feed them something besides live fish when they get bigger???) and the possibility of more time involved (tho just community fish tank is wearing me out!)...also, only a 20 gallon tank. Too small.



just had to add the funny face to cheer myself up (and the blueberry muffins in the oven might help too)

 

[Zagz]

Also did you add extra aeration or lower the water level a bit to increase oxygen? It will help some for the fish.

 

[neilanh]

I can't believe I typed that.

Yeah - you know what I meant...

 

[Isabella17]

Also did you add extra aeration or lower the water level a bit to increase oxygen? It will help some for the fish.

Thank you Zagz. Yes, I did lower the level to give more splash to the tank. I also put in a bubble wand for more aeration. It was great to watch when I first put it in there. Some of the fish kept swimming into it and seemed to be having a grand ole time. Shame to think that some of them didn't last the night

Thanks!

 

[Zagz]

Sorry for your loss, keep up the heat treatment as you will need to kill off the ich for the restocking you will need. I hope the other fish will make it!

 

[bs6749]

Use "Quick Cure" and the ick will be gone in a day.

 

[Isabella17]

Use "Quick Cure" and the ick will be gone in a day.

While 10-15 years ago I would have quickly gone to the nearest store and bought medications, I won't do that now. It may or may not make sense to some, but we try and use as much natural stuff as we can (now, I highly believe in medicine and science....many, if not most, drugs do have a basis in plants after all). Plus, I am pregnant and do not handle any chemicals whatsoever. That is what hubby is for if needed (it also gets me out of emptying the litter box...LOL) Since he won't be available all the time for treatments, medications are a no-go.

Thanks tho. There would have been a time I would not have hesitated nor do I think medications are a "bad". It is just not for us at this time or in the foreseeable future (especially since there are alternative choices).

Sometimes I wish I would have stayed ignorant. It would make my life, especially cooking!, so much easier. LOL

 

[bs6749]

You say "chemicals" in the same general manner as everyone else that won't use meds because they are "chemicals" so they MUST be bad. This ignorance gives meds a bad name. Nearly anything can be or is composed of "chemicals". Everythinig except elements, which make up the chemicals. You are right, many medicines DO have origins in plants. Doesn't mean they are good, doesn't mean they are bad. It's knowing WHAT the compound does that makes it good or bad. Using "Quick Cure" WILL kill ick. It works on external parasites. It contains formalin, which is an aqueous solution of formaldahyde...the same stuff embalmers use to preserve bodies and they same stuff that makes a person's liver hard from drinking too much. It is also the same thing that discus experts use to treat external parasites. I guess it all depends on how much you want your fish to live. Formalin will have the ick gone in a day and the fish will be recovering with little stress. OR, you could raise the water temps, decrease the amount of O2 in the water making your fish breathe more laboriously, making their metabolism work at a faster rate and stressing them more because you want a "natural way" of treating ick. Think about that though, how often in nature does a body of water raise in temperature by 7+ degrees in a single day? Unless there is volcanic activity, I'd say never. It would take several days for the water in a decent size body of water to raise by a degree or two so it's not really "natural" to adjust the temps that quickly.

 

[Alaris]

Think about that though, how often in nature does a body of water raise in temperature by 7+ degrees in a single day? Unless there is volcanic activity, I'd say never. It would take several days for the water in a decent size body of water to raise by a degree or two so it's not really "natural" to adjust the temps that quickly.

How often in nature is "quick cure" added to a body of water to heal what ails a fish? I'd say that's less likely to occur in nature than temperature rising.

 

[Alaris]

Obviously there isn't always someone out there to take care of every fish especially in their natural habitat.

Formaldehyde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Formaldehyde can be toxic, allergenic, and carcinogenic.[7] Because formaldehyde resins are used in many construction materials it is one of the more common indoor air pollutants.[8] At concentrations above 0.1 ppm in air formaldehyde can irritate the eyes and mucous membranes, resulting in watery eyes. Formaldehyde inhaled at this concentration may cause headaches, a burning sensation in the throat, and difficulty breathing, as well as triggering or aggravating asthma symptoms.[9]

Formaldehyde's not a saint.

 

[SWFanAtiC69]

Ich has to run its course, if you could've somehow took all fish out for a month then put them back that would have been the best option. Since the ich needs a host to live, no fish no host. But unfortanely alot of ppl cannot do this. A QT is a necessity for any type of aquarist!! Sorry for your loss..

 

[Zagz]

How are the fish doing today? I too prefer not to use meds unless I have no other options.

 

[Isabella17]

How are the fish doing today? I too prefer not to use meds unless I have no other options.

Well, at least we have one very resilent (I can't spell that dangit!) zebra. He seems healthy and I have no seen any white spots on him. He is playing in and out of the bubbles from the bubble wand. Poor thing is all alone though (unless you could the ghost shrimp hiding or the zebra fry hiding in the gravel). I think we would have come out a lot better if the fish weren't already highly stressed and maybe not the best bred in the first place (well, they brought the Ick with them too..) We have learned and will not make the same mistake again.

Part of me wishes I could use meds (a small part nowadays). But with my condition (LOL...condition? I sound like I should be in a hospital quaratine ward and not growing my own little fry) there is no way I am touching some of that stuff with a 200 foot pole. I think I will also use that same pole in regards to the med/no meds debate

Thanks for thinking of us

 

[bs6749]

How often in nature is "quick cure" added to a body of water to heal what ails a fish? I'd say that's less likely to occur in nature than temperature rising.

My point was that formalin works and it doesn't stress the fish unlike raising the temps. I never said that it occured in significant amounts in their water.

Obviously there isn't always someone out there to take care of every fish especially in their natural habitat.

Formaldehyde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Formaldehyde's not a saint.

Never said it was, but it does have its usefulness such as killing external parasites on fish in a short amount of time. Are you saying formalin is ALWAYS bad because it is a suspected carcinogen? It's still used to this day in wart removers and I'm sure some other healthcare applications today.

Ich has to run its course, if you could've somehow took all fish out for a month then put them back that would have been the best option. Since the ich needs a host to live, no fish no host. But unfortanely alot of ppl cannot do this. A QT is a necessity for any type of aquarist!! Sorry for your loss..

Ick is always present in any established aquarium. It's an opportunistic parasite and takes advantage of a stressed fish.

 

[MisticX]

let's make something clear,
WHATEVER you do, ick will remain in your tank.

you may boil the tank and all stuff in it, and as soon as you put your fish back, one of your fish will drop one left over-real hardened egg and that egg will restart the whole cycle.

i have a HUGE experience with ick, and i am 101% honest with you, temperature treatment sucks.
i did it 3 times for over 1 month each time, and in each of the 3 cases i lost 90+% of the fish i had, fish that i was very attached to, fish that also cost a lot.

now, i am not saying it does not help, all i am saying is use it to boost something you already have. do not kill your fish.

take your fish out in a glass container(if possible) and give them a normal dose, then 2 days later a normal dose again. in the meanwhile change their water twice a day.
in the meantime use a double medication dose in your tank (after removing all life except plants) and raise the temp to the 86 deg mark.

the 4th time i got the ich in my tank i used this method (QT method) and i have lost ZERO fish.
my fish got stronger after the treatment, and when ich reappeared the 5th time, they fought it by themselves... and guess what ... STRONG fish could beat the ich.

WEAK fish that have been supporting a 86 deg for 2+ weeks won't be able to beat the ich, actually even without the ich i am 100% sure that some of your fish will die.