Ick! Several fish have died! Help wanted ASAP!

[B Phishin]

- 29 Gallon tank
- 100 and 150 Penguin Bio-Wheel Filtration System\
- 2 Heaters - 1 automatically set @ 78 Degrees (F), other is an Aqueon 100 Watt Submersible Heater set @ 82 Degrees (F)
-50 lbs of playsand (thoroughly rinsed/cleansed)
- Slabs of slate/limesone, couple small pieces of Malaysian driftwood, artificial plants

- ph - 7.5-8
- GH - 180
- kH - 120-180
- NO2 - 1-3 (working on that)
- NO3 - 0-40

- Tank Stock - 3 juvenile Angelfish, 2 German Blue Rams (GBRs), 1 spotted synadontis catfish (valentiana), and... 6 dead Cardinal Tetras (due to the ick/ich parasites in the last 48 hours). ---- very dissapointing.

Hello everyone. Need advice ASAP! Would much appreciate any input. I've had mytank setup for about 3 months now. The first month I let tried to let it cycle, and have been stocking the tank slowly over the past 2 months. For some rational, random reason, I came across 2 juvenile Brichardis (african cichlids) that were approx a 1/2 inch long (tiny and cute - I know.. very dumb of me) and thought I could throw them in my tank with my 6 cardinal tetras, 3 juvenile Angelfish (dime-sized), 2 GBRs (spawning couple), and 1 juvenile, spotted-synadontis catfish (valentiana). Noticed that as soon as I put them in there they began darting around the tank and scratched their sides on the sand and rock edges.. Didn't think much of it until I watched them nip at my cardinal tetras and saw the white spots on my innocent tetras! "DANG!!" is what I "kinda" said, but in other 4-lettered words. Then, I drove to my LPS, returned the Brichardis and bought API Super Ick Cure Powder. Poured in 3 pouches of the powder on Monday the 14th (1 pouch for every 10 gallons), woke up and 2 cardinal tetras were dead. Did the 2nd dosage (48 hours later) today after finding the other 4 cardinal tetras had passed, and now my spawning couple of GBRs is hyperventilating and not eating! Dont think they're going to be alive when I wake up.. I'm so frustrated and feel at fault. I dunno what I'm going to do if my Angels, GBRs and Spotted Synadontis Catfish dies... Please help.. This is painful and could use everybody's advice... Thanks in advance..

 

[jetajockey]

Hi. Sorry to hear about the tank. By No2 you mean nitrites, right? What about your ammonia reading? (NH3)

1-3 in nitrite is a high number, are you using a liquid test kit or strips?

My cure for ich has always been salt and heat, raise the temp up to 86 and salt the water at around 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.

The positive side effect of this is that the salt will help inhibit the toxic effects of the Nitrite in the water. I think that the nitrite in the water is probably the main cause for the deaths, but the Ich needs to be taken care of also. What did the dead fish look like? Anything out of the ordinary? Red/brown gills? Streaks on the body?

So if I were in your position I would do a big water change (50-75%) and then salt the tank and crank the heat up.

I have no experience with the ich meds that you mentioned so I can't comment on that.

 

[KittyKat]

What is your ammonia (NH3/NH4+) reading? Are you using test strips or liquid tests? From your reading, it looks like your filter isn't cycled and that would make the problem much worse. (On a less important note, how did you "try to let" the filter cycle?)

For now, increase the surface movement (aeration), increase your temperature to 29-30 C (86 F) and do a 95% water change with dechlorinated and temperature matched water before you add the third treatment tonight/tomorrow/whenever it is due. Use a double dose of any dechlorinator which deals with ammonia and nitrite (Prime by Seachem, for example) to treat the new water when you do the water change and add a single dose now. I suspect that you have ammonia as well as the nitrite, both of which are harmful to the fish.

In the long term, you will have problems with keeping only 3 angels and the tank is probably not big enough for them to reach their potential adult size, but this isn't relevant for the immediate future.

 

[OasisKeeper]

Sounds as though the dose was high. This from another companies literature:

"The toxicity of Malachite Green varies with a number of factors including species of fish and its size, and less with prevailing water conditions. Malachite Green can be used at concentrations of 0.05-0.15 ppm. Used at 0.05 ppm, most species can be treated with little if any toxicity problems. However, care must be exercised when treating known sensitive fishes such as dwarf cichlids, barbs, tetras, gouramis, livebearers, catfish, loaches, mormyrids and scaleless fishes"

If your nitrites were that high prior to this, there was already a problem with the biofilteration in your tank. The fish were already very stressed. You need to be testing ammonia as well, no results are listed in your notes.

At this point I would say large partial water changes and carbon to pull the medication levels down. Deal with the ammonia and nitrite problems first before trying to address the ick problem again.

A final note: This medication has some toxicity to humans. Be sure to wash and rinse your hands well after handling the packets.

 

[jlk]

Lots of big pwcs as suggested! Your nitrites are dangerously high (thus the hyperventilating) & they need to be zero. Your fish are slowly suffocating from nitrite poisoning. Please let us know what your ammonia levels are & how your are testing (liquid or strips) and if you cycled your tank before adding fish and we will be able to help you better!

 

[jetajockey]

Duplicate threads merged into proper section.

Looking forward to your reply with any test results, it'll give us a better idea of what is going on.

 

[KittyKat]

Thanks for merging

I advise against salt treatment for soft water fish such as blue rams, angels and tetras because they do not tolerate salt particularly well as they are genetically built to be better suited to soft water, while salt will make the water harder. Soft water fish are able to adjust to hard water quite well, which is why they can be kept in neutral or slightly hard water, but only up to a point (which, from what I have seen, is at adding salt).

I have had good success treating with Sera's Protazol the only time I bought new rams which came out in ich the next day, but have never used the API medication.

 

[OasisKeeper]

The medication he used contained malachite green, an antibiotic, and salt. I think it didn't help the bio filter much. I would like to hear what happens, but would not be surprised by a wipe.

From the MSDS:

sodium chloride >95
Nitrofurazone 1.5
silica amorphous, fumed, crystalline free 1.5
C.I. Basic Green 4 (hydrochloride) 2 <

 

[B Phishin]

Thanks guys.. my GBRs, Angels, and Synadontis made it through the night.. Just got off work and they're all sitting on the bottom now, barely eating my brine shrimp (thought that'd be a nice treat if this was their last meal and ended up in my toilet).. I don't know my ammonia levels.. (Yes, I know I need to get on that). I'm about to do a 50 percent water change. Is tap water acceptable for replacing my old water, if I put in a large dose of Prime to rid the tank of chlorine and other toxins (as well as 'Stress Guard')? I'm desparate at this point and don't want my fish to get "wiped" out.. And, my cardinal tetras were the only ones to bite it so far.. not from my nitrate/nitrite levels because they were fine for a couple weeks before that.. they were covered in white spots when I flushed them (very sad).. So, I'm going to do a 50 percent water change and then add the last dose of API Super ICK Powder tomorrow.. Whatcha guys think?! Wish me the best..

 

[KittyKat]

You should dose Prime *before* you add the water to the tank and use double the recommended dose (it helps with ammonia and nitrite, so you need to be able to dose enough to get rid of chlorine, chloramine, ammonia and nitrite, not just chlorine). I recommend that you do a much larger (90-95%) water change or do a 50% one, then a few hours later a large one and only then dose medication. Make sure the new water is same temperature as old water.

Please do not flush anything aquarium related down the toilet, especially fish with diseases. You are risking contaminating your local water sources! If the fish is dead, put it in the bin or bury it in your garden. If it is alive, kill it by bashing its head in (or with a strong solution of clove oil and water), then throw it in the bin or bury in the garden. Bin is by far the safest.

An overdose of malachite green can kill the filter, so be careful to use only the recommended dose and remember to take décor into account when calculating the dose. Remember that most medications are harmful to fish, they work because they are more harmful to whatever you're trying to treat.

 

[OasisKeeper]

Many here put the Prime in the tank water when changing instead of pretreating the water. They do this for convenience obviously. I don't see this as big issue one way or the other. I would pretreat on the theory the the lowest stress is the the best.

One thing is certain at this point in time; Your bio filter cannot process fish waste all the way through to nitrates effectively enough, or else the nitrites would be zero. You will have to continue doing water changes and watching this until your filter recovers. An ammonia test kit would be helpful in this regard.

As to the ick treatment, I would certainly pick a less invasive treatment over one that does salt, antibiotic, and malachite green all at once. I would pick one, due to the other factors in the tank, and it would be the one that I deemed to be least invasive.

I am very glad things have come out more positive then I imagined so far. Here's hoping this all comes out well in the end.
Cheers

 

[KittyKat]

Many here put the Prime in the tank water when changing instead of pretreating the water. They do this for convenience obviously. I don't see this as big issue one way or the other. I would pretreat on the theory the the lowest stress is the the best.

While normally I would not consider this to be a problem, the OP's filter is not in the best condition so there is no point risking letting it come into contact with chlorine and/or chloramine. From my own experience and experimentation, a 5-8% top-up with non-dechlorinated water that contains enough chloramine to leave 0.25 ppm after dechlorination is enough to stall a fully cycled filter for 2-3 days consistently. On the other hand, chloramine is commercially used to treat gill parasites, so can't be that harmful to the fish themselves in low concentrations.

B_Phishin, is there any chance that you could have had a power cut in the last few weeks? Those can kill off bio-wheel filters in a matter of minutes since the majority of bacteria are on the wheel and would die once it dried out. This is why I'm not a fan of this type of filter :-/