Diary of sadness: Any ideas, any help, any thoughts, any comments, greatly greatly desired... My fish have now been sick for 4 straight weeks, out of 5.
Parameters:
80-81 degrees, no other variance, not even during water changes
Ammonia - never moves from Safe, none present
NitrItes 0
NitrAtes - 10 ppm before water change, 5 ppm after water change. Highest ever seen was 18-20 ppm.
12g Acryclic tank Fishlessly Cycled
Stocking started: 1 Dwarf Gourami, 6 Neons, 3 Otos - all flourished, ate well, grew well in color until Day 8.
*Dwarf Gourami was closely watched as his color appeared to rule out problems like Velvet - never confirmed, seemed healthy until Day 8.
*1 Neon was purchased or developed in transit, to have a missing piece of gill on oneside, where a large red exposed area was. Despite this problem, and the fact that the more she grew, the more it grew, and never healed, other than this she was very healthy and intelligent. (She finds the falled food first usually.)
Day 8 of Acclimation:
Problem: One white spot stuck to head of Neon.
(Would later rethink that the "cute playing with their face's reflection" was probably rubbing their gills on glass.)
Reaction: Added Aquarium Salt per box recommendations: 1 TBSP / 5 gallons. (6 TSP, actually dosed for 10g, not 12g.)
Result: Next day the one spot dropped off. Thought I was in good shape.
Day 10: Day 1 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Almost all fish develop 1-2 white salt like spots. Ich is hard hitting. Begin to breathe with lots of difficulty, dash on rocks, very much distressed.
Reaction: Turned up heat from 80-81 to 83-84. Lowered water level 3" for increased oxygen.
Result: Fish are very stressed, unhappy.
Reaction: Advised to increase salt amount to 2 tsp/gallon gradually. Can see fish reviving a little more each time it's added. First time they begin to act less lethargic (not laying on gravel.)
Day 11: Day 2 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Lost track of salt when taking out tank water to dissolve the remaining recommended amount.
Reaction: Advised to water change and remove the salt as an estimate 3tsp/gallon ended up in the tank. Had been leaving just a lamp on in their room, and the aquarium light off, and trying to keep the area noiseless to lower any stress.
Result: Not in time, lost the dwarf gourami which was not coping well. Must have died in fifteen minutes or less since I'd last seen him. (Unfortunately, testing of a subwoofer sound system from the home theatre professional servies office nearby was ensuing; unsure if related.)
Day 12: Day 3 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Fish not coping well
Reaction: Advised to drop temperature down, as the salt would take care of Ich eventually, and the higher temp was only increasing the activity of the ich/stressing out the fish. Some low-activity water changes, and very slow gravel vac'ing to try and suck up the offenders.
Result: Fish seem to cope better. Flashing/darting for the most part disappear.
Day 15: Day 6 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Finally see the last ich dots drop off, after almost a week of solid spots.
Reaction: Water changes (before vacation) including matching of the salt replacement. At or a little above (estimated 2.25 tsp/gallon) recommendations.
Results: One very sick fish appears to lose lots of color from his body, but when he recovers after 5 days, color returns, except large white patches on his red tail/body.
Day 21: Day 12 of Ich Treatment
Problem: 3-4 fish look raggedy, including white stringy things around the mouth that I took for Ich scarring.
Reaction: Water changes, replacing of salt, etc. One to twice weekly, feeding garlic oil soaked vitamin food. (Contined use of Melafix since they were put in the tank.)
Day 24: Day 15 of Ich Treatment - STOP SALT
Problem: 3-5 fish now have spreading white opaque areas on the area that should be red, towards the back of their body, in addition to their stringy white mouths. Advised that this sounds like Columnaris. Do research, find that Mouth Fungus is the onset of bacteria called Columnaris. Present in the environment, takes advantage of changes in temperature, fish
weakness, etc.
In addition, the worst one with the first white patch, now had a white wormy thing growing out of its patch!
Reaction: Told to use Maracyn/Karmacyn. Go to fish store. Fish store doesn't have anything but Copper Safe (and she is convinced white wormy thing is a parasite like anchor worms.) Purchase Copper Safe and Jungle Anti-Parasite food. Treatment begins.
Water change, and because the Copper Safe treats for Ich/parasites, do not replace any salt.
Result: No apparent adverse reaction to the medication. In a few days, notice that the wastes of the fish are different - much more, red to white in color, and seems to be really cleaning them out. Bellies full, appetite good, etc. (Food is not their favorite, but all 6 Neons appear to eat at least some of it.)
The Otos have decided they no longer like either of the wafer brands I've been trying to entice them with - but seem busy "eating" all over the tank, with mostly rounded bellies.
Day 28: Day 1 of Maracyn - Day 4 of Copper Safe Ich Treatment (Day 19)
Problem: White patches not retreating. Tank is also cloudy (problem from the food they aren't eating and the removal of the carbon filter.)
Reaction: Travel some hours to obtain Maracyn and Jungle Anti-biotic food. Assumed Maracyn II wasn't needed, and didn't want to overmedicate. Begin treating with Pimafix as well (continued daily use of Melafix.) Carbon filter still out, but the smaller filter in there to preserve nitrification, as before. Also using a few extra drops of Prime to help with slimecoat.
Result: Tank clears up. Everyone ok, active and coping well with the fresh water, the lack of salt in tank, etc. Eating well, but Otos still not interested in algae wafers, bellies still seem full. Next day or so Mouth Fungus appears to clear - fish finally look better. Patches not retreating much.
Day 30: Day 3 of Maracyn - Day 7 Copper Safe Ich Treatment (Day 23 of no signs of Ich)
Problem: White patches not retreating. One fish still has, perhaps worsening, mouth fungus. Disturbed to see that the old Ich behaviors are returning:
Fish act as if oxygen is lacking. One Oto in particular leaves off eating, and sticks itself to objects at the waterline, where it's head remains. Neons and Otos repeat spending lots of time rubbing their gills on the glass, like before.
Reaction: Gradually added the salt back in - but only 3-4 tsp, in the 12g. Predissolved in water, and slowly administered in the course of an hour.
Result: The worst. The next morning, an Oto (possibly the previously mentioned one, sitting at the water line), was stiff, on the bottom of the gravel. All of it's fins were fully extended, not limp. The Otos, despite not eaching much, look really really full in their bellies. Hope the salt isn't making them bloated.
Day 31: Day 4 of Maracyn - Day 8 Copper Safe Ich Treatment and minor salt
Problem: Dead Oto, fish not coping well. One of it's two buddies, is copying it's previous behaviour of sticking to chords right below the water level and not eating much. I am very stressed, hoping he doesn't follow the other.
Reaction: Water change, 1/3, salt not added back in. Fish seem to cope better, become more active again. Go back to regular omnivore flake feeding hoping the Oto's appetites will return. Blanched Spinach added to the tank, since the only one interested in the algae wafer, is my sickest neon who snacks on it all day. Remaining Otos seem to be less ready-to-burst looking. Still look like bellies are full.
Result: Fish seem more active. Strangely, one Neon vomits 3 or 4 times a fairly large amount of food fed about 1-2 hours previously immediately following water change.
Day 32: Day 5 (supposedly final) of Maracyn - Day 9 of Copper Safe and minor salt
Problem: TONIGHT, A WHITE SPOT HAS APPEARED ON THE WHITISH PATCH OF THE SMALLER/SICKEST FISH. THERE APPEAR TO BE AT LEAST 2 OTHER NEONS WITH WHITE SPOTS. Possible reoccurance of the feared Ich!!! Fish are twitching and clamping, very uncomfortable. Otos aren't eating much, and spent most of the time racing up and down and back forth across the tank, perpendicular to the tank (not flat up against like they eat), and rubbing faces on glass frantically. Spending a lot of time around the surface.
Was told I was leaving the light on too long, so turned light off early tonight, 6 pm. Observed in the night light, how they would act with the light off.
Symptoms were scarrier: A few minutes after the light turned off, the Neons left searching for food, and began to ram themselves up against the glass and flashing frantically off the rocks. The otos, one of which has already done this all day long, begins to ram itself down headlong on the gravel repeatedly, as well as all over the tank horizontally.
I can't remember having seen so many of the fish, suffer to this intensity. Since today was supposed to be the last day of the anti-biotics, I am contemplating very large water changes, Mela and Pima and leaving the rest up to the fish!
WHAT DO I DO NOW?
I am concerned if I go back to the salt treatment which they barely made it through, it will kill them off, as I think it probably killed the Oto the day before yesterday. (And that was a small dosage!)
It was irritating to me to have Maracyn make doses in 10g - my tank is a 12g. I had to estimate on adding just a bit to make up the difference.
Should I try Maracyn II? Should I try Tetracycline? Should I try something for FUNGUS instead of bacteria/parasite?!?! Should I go back to the salt because maybe these things are darned if I do, and darned if I don't?!?!
Parameters:
80-81 degrees, no other variance, not even during water changes
Ammonia - never moves from Safe, none present
NitrItes 0
NitrAtes - 10 ppm before water change, 5 ppm after water change. Highest ever seen was 18-20 ppm.
12g Acryclic tank Fishlessly Cycled
Stocking started: 1 Dwarf Gourami, 6 Neons, 3 Otos - all flourished, ate well, grew well in color until Day 8.
*Dwarf Gourami was closely watched as his color appeared to rule out problems like Velvet - never confirmed, seemed healthy until Day 8.
*1 Neon was purchased or developed in transit, to have a missing piece of gill on oneside, where a large red exposed area was. Despite this problem, and the fact that the more she grew, the more it grew, and never healed, other than this she was very healthy and intelligent. (She finds the falled food first usually.)
Day 8 of Acclimation:
Problem: One white spot stuck to head of Neon.
(Would later rethink that the "cute playing with their face's reflection" was probably rubbing their gills on glass.)
Reaction: Added Aquarium Salt per box recommendations: 1 TBSP / 5 gallons. (6 TSP, actually dosed for 10g, not 12g.)
Result: Next day the one spot dropped off. Thought I was in good shape.
Day 10: Day 1 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Almost all fish develop 1-2 white salt like spots. Ich is hard hitting. Begin to breathe with lots of difficulty, dash on rocks, very much distressed.
Reaction: Turned up heat from 80-81 to 83-84. Lowered water level 3" for increased oxygen.
Result: Fish are very stressed, unhappy.
Reaction: Advised to increase salt amount to 2 tsp/gallon gradually. Can see fish reviving a little more each time it's added. First time they begin to act less lethargic (not laying on gravel.)
Day 11: Day 2 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Lost track of salt when taking out tank water to dissolve the remaining recommended amount.
Reaction: Advised to water change and remove the salt as an estimate 3tsp/gallon ended up in the tank. Had been leaving just a lamp on in their room, and the aquarium light off, and trying to keep the area noiseless to lower any stress.
Result: Not in time, lost the dwarf gourami which was not coping well. Must have died in fifteen minutes or less since I'd last seen him. (Unfortunately, testing of a subwoofer sound system from the home theatre professional servies office nearby was ensuing; unsure if related.)
Day 12: Day 3 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Fish not coping well
Reaction: Advised to drop temperature down, as the salt would take care of Ich eventually, and the higher temp was only increasing the activity of the ich/stressing out the fish. Some low-activity water changes, and very slow gravel vac'ing to try and suck up the offenders.
Result: Fish seem to cope better. Flashing/darting for the most part disappear.
Day 15: Day 6 of Ich Treatment
Problem: Finally see the last ich dots drop off, after almost a week of solid spots.
Reaction: Water changes (before vacation) including matching of the salt replacement. At or a little above (estimated 2.25 tsp/gallon) recommendations.
Results: One very sick fish appears to lose lots of color from his body, but when he recovers after 5 days, color returns, except large white patches on his red tail/body.
Day 21: Day 12 of Ich Treatment
Problem: 3-4 fish look raggedy, including white stringy things around the mouth that I took for Ich scarring.
Reaction: Water changes, replacing of salt, etc. One to twice weekly, feeding garlic oil soaked vitamin food. (Contined use of Melafix since they were put in the tank.)
Day 24: Day 15 of Ich Treatment - STOP SALT
Problem: 3-5 fish now have spreading white opaque areas on the area that should be red, towards the back of their body, in addition to their stringy white mouths. Advised that this sounds like Columnaris. Do research, find that Mouth Fungus is the onset of bacteria called Columnaris. Present in the environment, takes advantage of changes in temperature, fish
weakness, etc.
In addition, the worst one with the first white patch, now had a white wormy thing growing out of its patch!
Reaction: Told to use Maracyn/Karmacyn. Go to fish store. Fish store doesn't have anything but Copper Safe (and she is convinced white wormy thing is a parasite like anchor worms.) Purchase Copper Safe and Jungle Anti-Parasite food. Treatment begins.
Water change, and because the Copper Safe treats for Ich/parasites, do not replace any salt.
Result: No apparent adverse reaction to the medication. In a few days, notice that the wastes of the fish are different - much more, red to white in color, and seems to be really cleaning them out. Bellies full, appetite good, etc. (Food is not their favorite, but all 6 Neons appear to eat at least some of it.)
The Otos have decided they no longer like either of the wafer brands I've been trying to entice them with - but seem busy "eating" all over the tank, with mostly rounded bellies.
Day 28: Day 1 of Maracyn - Day 4 of Copper Safe Ich Treatment (Day 19)
Problem: White patches not retreating. Tank is also cloudy (problem from the food they aren't eating and the removal of the carbon filter.)
Reaction: Travel some hours to obtain Maracyn and Jungle Anti-biotic food. Assumed Maracyn II wasn't needed, and didn't want to overmedicate. Begin treating with Pimafix as well (continued daily use of Melafix.) Carbon filter still out, but the smaller filter in there to preserve nitrification, as before. Also using a few extra drops of Prime to help with slimecoat.
Result: Tank clears up. Everyone ok, active and coping well with the fresh water, the lack of salt in tank, etc. Eating well, but Otos still not interested in algae wafers, bellies still seem full. Next day or so Mouth Fungus appears to clear - fish finally look better. Patches not retreating much.
Day 30: Day 3 of Maracyn - Day 7 Copper Safe Ich Treatment (Day 23 of no signs of Ich)
Problem: White patches not retreating. One fish still has, perhaps worsening, mouth fungus. Disturbed to see that the old Ich behaviors are returning:
Fish act as if oxygen is lacking. One Oto in particular leaves off eating, and sticks itself to objects at the waterline, where it's head remains. Neons and Otos repeat spending lots of time rubbing their gills on the glass, like before.
Reaction: Gradually added the salt back in - but only 3-4 tsp, in the 12g. Predissolved in water, and slowly administered in the course of an hour.
Result: The worst. The next morning, an Oto (possibly the previously mentioned one, sitting at the water line), was stiff, on the bottom of the gravel. All of it's fins were fully extended, not limp. The Otos, despite not eaching much, look really really full in their bellies. Hope the salt isn't making them bloated.
Day 31: Day 4 of Maracyn - Day 8 Copper Safe Ich Treatment and minor salt
Problem: Dead Oto, fish not coping well. One of it's two buddies, is copying it's previous behaviour of sticking to chords right below the water level and not eating much. I am very stressed, hoping he doesn't follow the other.
Reaction: Water change, 1/3, salt not added back in. Fish seem to cope better, become more active again. Go back to regular omnivore flake feeding hoping the Oto's appetites will return. Blanched Spinach added to the tank, since the only one interested in the algae wafer, is my sickest neon who snacks on it all day. Remaining Otos seem to be less ready-to-burst looking. Still look like bellies are full.
Result: Fish seem more active. Strangely, one Neon vomits 3 or 4 times a fairly large amount of food fed about 1-2 hours previously immediately following water change.
Day 32: Day 5 (supposedly final) of Maracyn - Day 9 of Copper Safe and minor salt
Problem: TONIGHT, A WHITE SPOT HAS APPEARED ON THE WHITISH PATCH OF THE SMALLER/SICKEST FISH. THERE APPEAR TO BE AT LEAST 2 OTHER NEONS WITH WHITE SPOTS. Possible reoccurance of the feared Ich!!! Fish are twitching and clamping, very uncomfortable. Otos aren't eating much, and spent most of the time racing up and down and back forth across the tank, perpendicular to the tank (not flat up against like they eat), and rubbing faces on glass frantically. Spending a lot of time around the surface.
Was told I was leaving the light on too long, so turned light off early tonight, 6 pm. Observed in the night light, how they would act with the light off.
Symptoms were scarrier: A few minutes after the light turned off, the Neons left searching for food, and began to ram themselves up against the glass and flashing frantically off the rocks. The otos, one of which has already done this all day long, begins to ram itself down headlong on the gravel repeatedly, as well as all over the tank horizontally.
I can't remember having seen so many of the fish, suffer to this intensity. Since today was supposed to be the last day of the anti-biotics, I am contemplating very large water changes, Mela and Pima and leaving the rest up to the fish!
WHAT DO I DO NOW?
I am concerned if I go back to the salt treatment which they barely made it through, it will kill them off, as I think it probably killed the Oto the day before yesterday. (And that was a small dosage!)
It was irritating to me to have Maracyn make doses in 10g - my tank is a 12g. I had to estimate on adding just a bit to make up the difference.
Should I try Maracyn II? Should I try Tetracycline? Should I try something for FUNGUS instead of bacteria/parasite?!?! Should I go back to the salt because maybe these things are darned if I do, and darned if I don't?!?!
