Please help angelfish fin rot

[Hobbiest]

I don't know what to do my oldest angel, Sonic, has fin rot. She is about six years old now and I believe the cause of the fin rot is a younger breeding pair in the tank. I only have a five gallon empty at this time and that is way too small for her she is currently in a 65 gallon. If I went and bought a ten gallon could I treat with aquarium salt or will that hurt her?

My nitrates are 20, nitrite 0, ammonia 0, PH 6.5 water quality I do not believe is the problem and I do a 50% water change weekly, all other fish seem fine that is why I believe it is the breeding pair. Until now it was just her tail was jagged but today I noticed it has black on edges and more alarming is that half of her right ventricle fin is just GONE!

Is there a treatment that will help her regrow her fin? Please help she was my first angel and I don't want to loose her yet. Here is a picture it is not the best one to see what she looks like but it really shows the fin rot she is in the upper right hand corner

 

[Delapool]

Salt should be fine as long as monitored. You could try the fish in a separate tank to have some peace and if not working all up, shift to anitbiotics.

As well, a half dose of pimafix for a few nights I have found useful to nudge fish into improving that just need a little help. Make sure the pimafix is well mixed. You could try that as well before antibotics.

 

[coralbandit]

Fin rot is a form of columnaris(there are at least 4 types).
Columnaris loves clean warm water!
Lower temp if possible and salt is ok for early treatment if the rest of tank will allow.
I had a similar infection in a swordtail breeding tank(40b) where only the oldest or weakest got infected.
This is a good link with treatment info on columnaris.
Fish Columnaris | Fungus & Saprolegnia | Treatment & Prevention

From the link;
• Finally, since Columnaris is an opportunistic aerobic infection even a well maintained aquarium can suffer from a Columnaris infection with even a slight opportunity for infection (assuming this bacterial pathogen is present). A common portal for a Columnaris infection is simply an older and weaker fish. Old age allows many opportunistic infections to get a foothold in at least the fish in question.
Hope this helps.

 

[candymancan]

Get some Fungal/Bacterial Medication.. Tetracycline or Tripple sulfa from API is great medication for this type of stuff.. also are you sure its fun rot ? Angles are known to tear apart other angle fish I have seen angles look just like yours in local fish stores and it was because they were nipping at eachothers fins.. Yours breeding pair might be way too aggressive.. And that tank doesn't look like a 65 gallon tank to me.. looks more like a 40 or something

 

[Delapool]

Fin rot is a form of columnaris(there are at least 4 types).
Columnaris loves clean warm water!
Lower temp if possible and salt is ok for early treatment if the rest of tank will allow.
I had a similar infection in a swordtail breeding tank(40b) where only the oldest or weakest got infected.
This is a good link with treatment info on columnaris.
Fish Columnaris | Fungus & Saprolegnia | Treatment & Prevention

From the link;
• Finally, since Columnaris is an opportunistic aerobic infection even a well maintained aquarium can suffer from a Columnaris infection with even a slight opportunity for infection (assuming this bacterial pathogen is present). A common portal for a Columnaris infection is simply an older and weaker fish. Old age allows many opportunistic infections to get a foothold in at least the fish in question.
Hope this helps.

Idk, we may be restricting ourselves here given the array of bacterial types out there and that with fin rot we usually check water conditions first (or for something stressing the fish)? Thoughts?

 

[coralbandit]

Idk, we may be restricting ourselves here given the array of bacterial types out there and that with fin rot we usually check water conditions first (or for something stressing the fish)? Thoughts?

Honestly IDK either!
I have not seen a pic,but only given a description as you.
It could be fungas or another issue,but IMO columnaris is the "fish flu" and one of my first choices when OP say their water is good(OP did give parameters).
@candymancan; 65 is same foot print as 40b just taller.

 

[sinibotia]

I would tend to agree with the columnaris diagnosis although I can't see the picture especially well.

 

[Delapool]

No worries, I was pretty curious as normally we don't get anything past suspecting gram negative or gram positive bacteria. So curious on what is leading to the call on the type of bacteria, not disagreeing with the post. Good research topic for this week! Also if anyone does have info on tetracycline being mainly for gram positive bacterial infections as the only link I have is from below.


Aquarium Medications and Treatments | How they work & Use

I've posted a couple of links that I have. I was going to look through them myself to see if fin rot is mainly one bacterial type. Or if say aeromonas or others are possible.

Columnaris disease in fish: a review with emphasis on bacterium-host interactions

Bacterial Diseases of Fish

Bacterial Diseases of Fish: Fish: Merck Veterinary Manual

 

[sinibotia]

As coralbandit said, columnaris is "fish flu", it's usually my first guess when it comes to bacterial infections- especially in good water. I've done fish care on columnaris trials in certain fish in the lab I work in, so I'm familiar enough with it. It's so common that it took several sets of fish for them to get ones that hadn't already had it.

 

[Delapool]

Sooo, is that for certain? I'm wondering what that is based off as had thought the bacteria are basically always present (along with others) and some stress trigger will set it off. It's just I don't see much information, posts or studies saying odds are it is this bacteria type x.

I had understood a culture was needed.

I don't mind if it is or isn't or even if you just see the majority of cases as some type of columnaris.

Apologies to the OP - so rare to have a discussion on this.

 

[coralbandit]

I'll apologise to OP also and then say there is TON of info on columnaris if you add "PDF" to your search.
In the first link Delapool put up they spelled out that almost ALL infections in our tanks are gram negative.
I'm not saying all,but that is what was printed.
From the same site they recommend maracyn 1 and 2 be used at same time as with some strains using only a gram negative or gram positive med did not work.


Many believe disease are present in tanks all the time and get triggered.
This is one of the biggest pieces of MISINFORMATION going in the aquarium trade/industry.
Ich or other disease NEED to be introduced somehow.
BUT this has NOT been proven with columnaris.
In my link it says (when pathogen is present) as a caveat,but how it gets into tanks or returns annually to fish farms is still "a mystery".
Sorry.
Columnaris is going to become a much larger problem in our future,especially if consider antibiotics aren't even available in some countries for our hobby.

 

[Hobbiest]

Tank was bought brand new at pet smart as a 65 gal for 450.00 in 2011 and I also have a 30 gallon tank so I know tank size, as for other angels beating her up that is a very good likelihood they are a breeding pair that can be very aggressive I am trying to rehome. The Pair has already raised one batch of fry and now I am done they create kayos in the tank and now I have two fish injured Sonic being the worst I assumed hers was fin rot because of how severe her tail was now I just have to work on healing them.

 

[candymancan]

Honestly IDK either!
I have not seen a pic,but only given a description as you.
It could be fungas or another issue,but IMO columnaris is the "fish flu" and one of my first choices when OP say their water is good(OP did give parameters).
@candymancan; 65 is same foot print as 40b just taller.

Ah ok because that tank looks narrow for a 65g lol. My 44g pentagon looks almost the same width lol.. I just looked up the dimentions of a 65g tall tank, I suppose youre right. they are 24 inches tall, 36 inches long and 18 inches deep.

As for fish flue... Columnaris is more like the Spanish Flu or Ebola... It kills at high rates and once you have it... Youre pretty much screwed.. Platies are more susceptible to it then most other fish I noticed..


Columnaris doesn't just go after the fins.. You will see it on the mouth too, and the body.. It kills quickly and once a fish shows symptoms its pretty much dead.. I was never able to eradicate it in my 30g with my moms platies.. So we just stopped buying them all together and switched substrates and redid the entire tank and now African cichlids live there and are perfectly fine... I moved the platies to another tank im not really using before, and they are still dying 1 by 1.. Once they are gone I plan to never buy them again.. I hate those fish

 

[Delapool]

I'll apologise to OP also and then say there is TON of info on columnaris if you add "PDF" to your search.
In the first link Delapool put up they spelled out that almost ALL infections in our tanks are gram negative.
I'm not saying all,but that is what was printed.
From the same site they recommend maracyn 1 and 2 be used at same time as with some strains using only a gram negative or gram positive med did not work.


Many believe disease are present in tanks all the time and get triggered.
This is one of the biggest pieces of MISINFORMATION going in the aquarium trade/industry.
Ich or other disease NEED to be introduced somehow.
BUT this has NOT been proven with columnaris.
In my link it says (when pathogen is present) as a caveat,but how it gets into tanks or returns annually to fish farms is still "a mystery".
Sorry.
Columnaris is going to become a much larger problem in our future,especially if consider antibiotics aren't even available in some countries for our hobby.

I had it start in a tank which had nothing new added for from memory a month or so. Could be out but it definitely started with the first heat wave of summer. And then it was a summer to forget as it came and went several times.