Preventative Methods for Possible Ich Symptoms?

[Osage_Winter]

Well, it looks like something may in fact be going on in my fancy goldie tank -- at least two of my babies appear to be experiencing what I can only describe as the beginnings of possible Ich or perhaps something else...they're doing the quick rubbing-on-the-gravel thing and quasi-flashing, so I was wondering if there was something I could add to the water to kind of nip this in the bud...would some stress coat help? The last API battery of water tests I did came back pretty neutral, so I don't think my water is necessarily polluted to the point that it could be the direct culprit.

 

[Fishguy2727]

What are the test results?

Add some aqaurium salt, this can help in these situations.

There is always a stressor associated with most diseases (definitely with ich) so figure out what is stressing them and fix it, otherwise you will continue having problems.

 

[Osage_Winter]

What are the test results?

They were in the last thread I started about that -- check the General Freshwater section...

Add some aqaurium salt, this can help in these situations.

Are you sure with goldies? How much should I add?

There is always a stressor associated with most diseases (definitely with ich) so figure out what is stressing them and fix it, otherwise you will continue having problems.

I understand; right now, I just want to bring them some relief -- someone had suggested Tetra parasite guard (fizzing tablets)...do you recommend these?

 

[Fishguy2727]

No, if I treat ich with meds I use Quick Cure.

Salt can make a huge difference with fish. Almost every store and wholesaler uses a lot of salt in all goldfish tanks.

Don't add more than about one tablespoon per five gallons.

 

[Osage_Winter]

No, if I treat ich with meds I use Quick Cure.

Salt can make a huge difference with fish. Almost every store and wholesaler uses a lot of salt in all goldfish tanks.

Don't add more than about one tablespoon per five gallons.

Well, it was recommended to me, the Tetra stuff, just to kind of "calm" whatever may be bothering them at the moment -- I don't think as much as an ailment cure. I have a container of API salt -- if I have 60 gallons and don't really want to measure out the amount of tablespoons, can I just add some right into the water, like say, a handful?

 

[WendiDell]

If you don't want to salt your whole tank, you can give the affected fish a salt bath. It will help them breath easier and make them a less desirable meal for the ick.
It's a matter of preference, some people like a little salt in their FWT and some don't. It's up to you.
Either way a salt bath really helps the fish feel better in the immediate. It helps keep them breathing while the medication kills off whatever disease the fish may have.

 

[fishguy1]

What are the test results?

They were in the last thread I started about that -- check the General Freshwater section...

So we need to go look at a different thread in order to get the information needed to help you with your problem in this thread


FIRST thing you should be doing is large water changes. Anytime there is any indication of a problem, water changes are your first line of defense. As fishguy said, there is something that is stressing them, making them susceptible to disease. Even if your test results come back good, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with the water. Contamination happens, and the test kit doesn't help you with that. Depending on what's wrong with the fish, changing the water can be enough to cure them. Often times removing the source of stress will allow the fish's immune system to take care of things.

I'm not a fan of salt, so I won't comment on that.

If it's Ich, you can treat it naturally by bumping the temperature up to 86 degrees and doing regular water changes to remove the cysts. This method takes 2 weeks, but it's natural and the fish aren't exposed to harsh medications. If the fish are infested, then I would skip right to meds. An infestation requires immediate relief.

 

[Osage_Winter]

If you don't want to salt your whole tank, you can give the affected fish a salt bath. It will help them breath easier and make them a less desirable meal for the ick.
It's a matter of preference, some people like a little salt in their FWT and some don't. It's up to you.
Either way a salt bath really helps the fish feel better in the immediate. It helps keep them breathing while the medication kills off whatever disease the fish may have.

Do you mean take the affected fish out of the main tank and treat him/her there? If I don't want to do that, or measure the salt for 60 gallons, can I just add a handful into the 60 gallons randomly?

 

[Osage_Winter]

So we need to go look at a different thread in order to get the information needed to help you with your problem in this thread

First of all, I wasn't replying to you -- I didn't ask you to do anything; I was merely suggesting to him that I didn't have the test results in front of me and that they were analyzed in depth in another thread which would make more sense for him to locate and look at during his own leisure because a great deal of discussion went down in that regard; I didn't want to get off topic here by going into that, except to say the results were on the neutral/safe side...

FIRST thing you should be doing is large water changes. Anytime there is any indication of a problem, water changes are your first line of defense. As fishguy said, there is something that is stressing them, making them susceptible to disease. Even if your test results come back good, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with the water. Contamination happens, and the test kit doesn't help you with that. Depending on what's wrong with the fish, changing the water can be enough to cure them. Often times removing the source of stress will allow the fish's immune system to take care of things.

If test results come back good and there's still something wrong with the water, what good are the test kits? I cannot do a full water change right now because I am in the tail spin of an extremely chronic case of bronchitis on top of flu.

I'm not a fan of salt, so I won't comment on that.

I don't know who to listen to -- people who say add salt to a FW/goldfish tank and those that say stay far away from this method; I could take one group's advice and lose the entire tank...

If it's Ich, you can treat it naturally by bumping the temperature up to 86 degrees and doing regular water changes to remove the cysts. This method takes 2 weeks, but it's natural and the fish aren't exposed to harsh medications. If the fish are infested, then I would skip right to meds. An infestation requires immediate relief.

I don't see any physical signs, as I said (by that I mean the bumps/nodules on body and gills/fins) -- they're just doing the strange quick-rubbing against the gravel, and this started with just one of them but now the Oranda seems to be doing it.

 

[fishguy1]

First of all, I wasn't replying to you -- I didn't ask you to do anything; I was merely suggesting to him that I didn't have the test results in front of me and that they were analyzed in depth in another thread which would make more sense for him to locate and look at during his own leisure because a great deal of discussion went down in that regard; I didn't want to get off topic here by going into that, except to say the results were on the neutral/safe side...

No, you didn't ask me anything, but test results are usually the first thing people ask for when there is a problem. Not that your test results are important for the advice I gave. But tests are either good or they're not good. Either there is ammonia and/or nitrite or there isn't.

If test results come back good and there's still something wrong with the water, what good are the test kits? I cannot do a full water change right now because I am in the tail spin of an extremely chronic case of bronchitis on top of flu.

The test rules out ammonia and nitrite poisoning. When trying to determine the nature of a problem, ruling things out that you can test for it the first step.

I don't know who to listen to -- people who say add salt to a FW/goldfish tank and those that say stay far away from this method; I could take one group's advice and lose the entire tank...

There are always more than one way to do things. What's important is that you don't pick and choose. If you're going to use salt, then follow the advice of the people who are suggesting it. People get in trouble when they start combining methods.

I don't see any physical signs, as I said (by that I mean the bumps/nodules on body and gills/fins) -- they're just doing the strange quick-rubbing against the gravel, and this started with just one of them but now the Oranda seems to be doing it.

Fish get itches from time to time and scratch, just like any other animal. If it seems to be a random occurrence, I'd just up the water changes a little and keep an eye on it. If more fish start doing it, and it is happening more frequently, then there is some sort of irritation in the water. Large water changes are the only thing you can do until there are physical signs to point to that would identify the problem.

No sense treating with meds until you know what you are treating, and I wouldn't add salt to the tank without knowing what the problem is.

 

[Osage_Winter]

No, you didn't ask me anything, but test results are usually the first thing people ask for when there is a problem. Not that your test results are important for the advice I gave. But tests are either good or they're not good. Either there is ammonia and/or nitrite or there isn't.

I understand test results are the first thing people ask for -- I wasn't debating that; I was merely telling him that my extensive results of what I came up with last were discussed in a different thread, and was hoping those results and the subsequent discussion in it would aid him in more detail than me trying to dig up the results in my mind, which I didn't have offhand...

From what I could recall, if this would help him, there were trace elements of ammonia -- 0.25 at the most -- and there was no NitrIte. NitrAte was another story -- I couldn't get a good reading, and couldn't figure out what the color/level was...

The test rules out ammonia and nitrite poisoning. When trying to determine the nature of a problem, ruling things out that you can test for it the first step.

Ammonia was not above .25 -- and it may have even been zero, if what other users of the "newer" API kits were telling me was right. Nitrite from what I can remember was ZERO.


There are always more than one way to do things. What's important is that you don't pick and choose. If you're going to use salt, then follow the advice of the people who are suggesting it. People get in trouble when they start combining methods.

I give up; I just don't know who to listen to or why -- I am questioning the salt method, and have more queries about this because I just added 10 tablespoons of the API salt to a bucket that's ready to be used for water evaporation replacement...

Fish get itches from time to time and scratch, just like any other animal. If it seems to be a random occurrence, I'd just up the water changes a little and keep an eye on it. If more fish start doing it, and it is happening more frequently, then there is some sort of irritation in the water. Large water changes are the only thing you can do until there are physical signs to point to that would identify the problem.

Well this is good to know -- thank you; I didn't know they can get "itches" and this was never explained to me nor explored; I will keep an eye on it and add the Tetra parasite fizzies tomorrow perhaps...

 

[Osage_Winter]

Okay...Here's a Question About Salt...

I have filled up a bucket to be used to replace the evaporation in my tank, and added 10 tablespoons (U.S.) of the API salt directly to the bucket in order to aid with the healing of any possible bug that may be bothering my fish (used as a tonic for relief, as API calls it)...here's the thing, though:

The instructions said to use ONE TABLESPOON for every 5 U.S. GALLONS, so being that I have a 60 gallon tank, I dropped approximately 10 tablespoons of salt in the bucket to be added to the tank -- but the salt doesn't evaporate or break down in the water, so it's just sitting on the bottom of the bucket, in crystals...is this okay to just add to the water like this? The crystals can just sit on the gravel, crystalized in form, when dumped in the tank? Does it work as a so-called "tonic" then?

 

[fishguy1]

Honestly, I've been keeping fish for 6 years and have never once put any salt in any of my tanks. I also don't use carbon in any of them, but that's a whole different debate. It still illustrates the point - there are always going to be people one both sides of an issue. I would never recommend salt because I've never used it. Does that make someone who does use it wrong? Yes, in my mind it does but in reality, there are very experienced fishkeepers who use it with good results. Does that make me wrong? Yes, in their minds

You need to dissolve the salt in the new water before adding it to the tank.

Does it work as a tonic? I don't know.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Don't tell people to go elsewhere to help you. You did ask that of me and I did not waste my time searching through the forums doing homework you asked me to do. Next time give the numbers in the thread currently being discussed.

I never use or recommend using salt all the time, but it is a very valuable tool in some cases (especially with external parasites like ich). There are many people who use it and an increase in temp as the only thing they ever do for ich, and it can be very effective. In addition, goldfish are treated as salt lovers in the industry. They are almost always given very high amounts of salt in wholesalers' and shops' tanks. I had to start adding salt to the goldfish system at the shop I was running because it stressed them so much to not have a lot of sal tin their water after coming from the wholesaler.

Always measure carefully. Do not add a squirt of dechlorinator, a handful of salt, or a scoop of meds. Measure it out.

The water in the bucket was saturated so no more salt will dissolve. The salt in the bucket also will not help the fish in the tank, add it to the tank next time. Split it into a few additions throughout the day (not all at once).

I should have mentioned it but didn't sorry, but water changes are always your best friend when ANY problem comes up. Unless it is one of the few times that the water change itself is causing a problem, it will help. That is usually the only thing I do when I have any issues. Not doing water changes when you have problems will almost always only make things worse.

 

[WendiDell]

WOW!!!!!!! I don't know if you've decided what to do yet. But after reading all the responses to your question, I wouldn't have a clue which way to go.
They all sound annoyed at each other for having a difference of opinion.
For now I just want to say good luck to you and your fish. And I wish you clarity.
Blessings
Wendi

 

[DragonFish71]

Ok folks, let's remember to keep it civil, don't let it get out of hand. This is a family site.

We can't force someone to take advice, we can only give it.

 

[fishguy1]

They all sound annoyed at each other for having a difference of opinion.

Who sounds annoyed with each other? I think us fishguys were on the same page....except for the use of salt, which I explained a couple times is a matter of differing schools of thought.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Exactly. I think the most annoyed was just asking a question and being told to go find the answer.

 

[Zagz]

Keep it on topic!

I would keep an eye on it. Goldfish do flash against the bottom of the tank. They can do this to stir up food. They are quite the pigs.

If it does turn out to be ich, don't use the heat method. Goldfish are coldwater species and will not react well to temps above 86F.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Goldfish are not coldwater, they are eurythermal. This means that they can handle a very wide range in temperature. White cloud mountain minnows and trout are coldwater species, they are harmed by tropical temperatures. Goldfish being coldwater is just an over-regurgitated myth.

Different types of goldfish can handle higher temps differently. Some of the fancier varieties cannot handle higher temps long term, but even most of these fish can handle higher temps short term for treating something like ich. I do agree that you don't need to go above 86F.