Yikes, yes - not helpful of them.
Sudden Death of Large Healthy Orandas
- Thread starter SandyCheeks
- Start date
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jlk
Aquarium Advice Addict
That's awful!! I am glad to hear they are steadily improving though!
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Hi - bit of a side topic but would you know of any test useful to check if the tap water does change because the water company is flushing or something?
All I could think of was maybe ammonia, chlorine and maybe copper testing of tap water during spring or something?
Every so often here I will go into the lfs and get told there have been tank issues from different owners which might be water related. I've never paid too much to it but now I'm wondering if there was something to it and how to pre-empt it.
Or if using Prime would solve it.
jlk
Aquarium Advice Addict
I wish I had a straight forward solution to this! Unfortunately, water companies are not legally required (in the US anyway) to inform you that they are flushing lines or super dosing any type of chemical treatment or switching water sources or switching disinfectants unless it poses a threat to human health. If it poses such a threat, they will send out a letter. Calling them to inquire about such things usually results in a run around as they are not legally required to answer anything. I think some companies are worse than others though as my municipality is equivalent to having a teeth pulled.
So, where does this leave us? It's good idea to keep tabs on your tap for changes that might indicate water sources have switched (such as big change in ph) or for the presence of ammonia (indicating a switch to chloramine or an increase in its use).
There are decent liquid chlorine tests available but you would need to purchase them from a pool supply store or online. Strip tests for chlorine or copper can at least give a ballpark range for levels (once again, these can be found in pool supply or online).
Beyond this, keep in mind Prime can be used safely up to 5x a standard dose. My tap is generally high in chlorine (you can smell it), so I play it on the safe side anyway and always double dose conditioner (triple dose if it smells particularly strong). Not scientific but considering I always change huge amounts of water, it's been a reasonable safety precaution. I do have liquid chlorine tests and copper strip tests by default as they are needed anyway to keep an eye on pool levels.
Running new carbon for a few hours after a wc would likely be helpful (then replace with your old media). And using an alternate water source (such as RO/DI) would eliminate any guesswork.
Not sure if any of this helps but it's the best I can offer!
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Not snails IN tap water but the die off is a result of the changes of chemicals in winter from the water company water source. They are very helpful if asked. I only asked one time which cleared up the winter snail death mysteries. This year too lost a couple. But try to limit water changing for awhile during the time I can smell strong chlorine and dose more Prime.
Generally starts in January or Feb. for us but a couple years ago I had a thriving snail population and in December they did the switch over and I wasn't expecting it that early. I haven't tested it specifically but I know there is a pH difference of at least 1 from about 6.4 up to 7.4 after it has been in the tank awhile. So with all my DW it could have made the tests lower after a couple of days settling in. Pretty sure there is a bit of pH shock probably having to do with the chemicals they use too.
Many thanks. Good ideas. That will be one bonus of the ph controller - if the tank ph after a pwc is odd, I 'should' spot it quickly.
I've heard prime mentioned a lot recently on this forum. What is it ? Is it just another water conditioner? I use api stress coat plus for waterchsnges. I'm sorry you lost your beautiful fish. Its made me more aware of my tap water. Ocassionally I have to leave my tap running as its cloudy first if all sometimes. Its been like this recently.
we're gona need a bigger tank (boat).. JAWS ~~~∆~~\o/~~
OP
OP
SandyCheeks
Aquarium Advice Freak
Thank you for the kind words. The fancies were so beautiful and had grown so large. My consolation is that up until that day that they had a good life. 
Hopefully my horrific story will help others be aware of the silent killers in city water.
Prime is a water conditioner but does so much more. I swear to God I had just ran out that weekend and used another water conditioner, thinking it would be "good enough" for that one time. wrong.
I just read a good article comparing water conditioners, I'll try to find it and provide the link.
Based on the great info provided from the absolutely wonderful people on this forum, this is my plan for doing water changes for my fancies (which I adore so much).
. Do a chlorine test and ph test on the tap water before a WC
. Always dose more than the recommended amount of Prime
. Test the water for ammonia/nitrite/ph the day following a WC
. From December to March, do smaller and more frequent water changes
. Contact the person I know of who works at the water treatment plant to see if there is any possibility of providing me with any info concerning anything new "coming down the pipe" - literally. It's worth a try, but I know dealing with govt that they deny, deny, deny.
The water used to contain a high percentage of arsenic, any way to test for arsenic?
Hopefully my horrific story will help others be aware of the silent killers in city water.
Prime is a water conditioner but does so much more. I swear to God I had just ran out that weekend and used another water conditioner, thinking it would be "good enough" for that one time. wrong.
I just read a good article comparing water conditioners, I'll try to find it and provide the link.
Based on the great info provided from the absolutely wonderful people on this forum, this is my plan for doing water changes for my fancies (which I adore so much).
. Do a chlorine test and ph test on the tap water before a WC
. Always dose more than the recommended amount of Prime
. Test the water for ammonia/nitrite/ph the day following a WC
. From December to March, do smaller and more frequent water changes
. Contact the person I know of who works at the water treatment plant to see if there is any possibility of providing me with any info concerning anything new "coming down the pipe" - literally. It's worth a try, but I know dealing with govt that they deny, deny, deny.
The water used to contain a high percentage of arsenic, any way to test for arsenic?
OP
OP
SandyCheeks
Aquarium Advice Freak
Oh dear, I think one of my remaining fish, Bruiser, may be partially or completely blind.
The reason I think this is because
A) I did not see him eat for the first week.
B) the day after the others died he stayed in the back corner, not moving much
C) he does not try to grab the food as it sinks. It literally falls over him. The other fish, Pumpkin, is grabbing the falling food like they all used to do.
D) he does not respond to a quick movement, like if I put quickly put my hand up to the tank.
E) he seems to see light (?) because he will move to whatever corner the light is on in the room
F) he seems to smell the food but only when I put it in the same spot. He randomly scoops and spits the gravel out until he gets some food. Sometimes he scoops up just water about and inch over the bottom, or bumps his nose on the bottom.
G ) as long as I put the food in the same spot in the corner, he eats. If I put the food in the other corner, he doesn't eat.
H) He hangs in one corner, staring at the living room light.
K) he seems to be feeling his way around the tank, lightly bumping into things.
J) he does seem to see my image though, when I put my face to the tank he sometimes swims up to me and stares.
K) he used to be active, and a little aggressive at times. Now he sits in the corner staring at the light with his dorsal puffed way up.
I hope I am wrong. How can I test his eyesight? I am not sure how to that.
One consolation is that he has a sweet tank mate, who is sticking by him.
The reason I think this is because
A) I did not see him eat for the first week.
B) the day after the others died he stayed in the back corner, not moving much
C) he does not try to grab the food as it sinks. It literally falls over him. The other fish, Pumpkin, is grabbing the falling food like they all used to do.
D) he does not respond to a quick movement, like if I put quickly put my hand up to the tank.
E) he seems to see light (?) because he will move to whatever corner the light is on in the room
F) he seems to smell the food but only when I put it in the same spot. He randomly scoops and spits the gravel out until he gets some food. Sometimes he scoops up just water about and inch over the bottom, or bumps his nose on the bottom.
G ) as long as I put the food in the same spot in the corner, he eats. If I put the food in the other corner, he doesn't eat.
H) He hangs in one corner, staring at the living room light.
K) he seems to be feeling his way around the tank, lightly bumping into things.
J) he does seem to see my image though, when I put my face to the tank he sometimes swims up to me and stares.
K) he used to be active, and a little aggressive at times. Now he sits in the corner staring at the light with his dorsal puffed way up.
I hope I am wrong. How can I test his eyesight? I am not sure how to that.
One consolation is that he has a sweet tank mate, who is sticking by him.
jlk
Aquarium Advice Addict
There is not a set test for blindness and/or some level of impairment in vision. What you are already doing is spot on- you observe, observe and observe some more.
Based on what you have already figured out, it definitely sounds as if he some degree of impairment. The sudden change from bold to meek behavior, staying in a particular safe area, not actively chasing or 'sighting' food opportunities, returning to a singular place to feed and 'tasting everything and bumping into or rubbing obvious things within his home are all indicative of an issue when viewed as a whole versus a singular event. Great job observing and noting these changes!
Ok, good news is he will adjust with time and this will not affect his quality of life. It sounds like he has some sense of light vs dark which is a plus. As the exact cause is not 100%, there may even be a possibility that he may recover some or all of his vision in time.
Whether he does or not, making his life a bit simpler is all that's needed. Continue to feed him in the exact same place for every meal. If you can place a shallow dish or something similar in his food spot, this will make it easier for him to eat. Make sure there is nothing sharp or pointed or tight. And just keep an eye out for him if you add fish in the future as he will have a hard time with bullies.
That's about it! I have kept visually impaired goldies, as well as completely blind ones, and still do. The only odd thing is one swims sideways to compensate for her lack of vision. They just need a bit of extra attention ensure they are eating well and in a safe environment.
In respect to an arsenic test (or any other nontypical test), they seem to readily available online from amazon and other big retailers. Afraid I have no experience using an arsenic test but they can be purchased!
Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
Based on what you have already figured out, it definitely sounds as if he some degree of impairment. The sudden change from bold to meek behavior, staying in a particular safe area, not actively chasing or 'sighting' food opportunities, returning to a singular place to feed and 'tasting everything and bumping into or rubbing obvious things within his home are all indicative of an issue when viewed as a whole versus a singular event. Great job observing and noting these changes!
Ok, good news is he will adjust with time and this will not affect his quality of life. It sounds like he has some sense of light vs dark which is a plus. As the exact cause is not 100%, there may even be a possibility that he may recover some or all of his vision in time.
Whether he does or not, making his life a bit simpler is all that's needed. Continue to feed him in the exact same place for every meal. If you can place a shallow dish or something similar in his food spot, this will make it easier for him to eat. Make sure there is nothing sharp or pointed or tight. And just keep an eye out for him if you add fish in the future as he will have a hard time with bullies.
That's about it! I have kept visually impaired goldies, as well as completely blind ones, and still do. The only odd thing is one swims sideways to compensate for her lack of vision. They just need a bit of extra attention ensure they are eating well and in a safe environment.
In respect to an arsenic test (or any other nontypical test), they seem to readily available online from amazon and other big retailers. Afraid I have no experience using an arsenic test but they can be purchased!
Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
As far as I can tell stress coat doesn't detoxify ammonia (just chlorine based compounds). Prime does (plus nitrite / nitrate. You would need API ammo lock instead.
Stress coat may be relatively better on the slime coat replacement. The lfs favoured stress coat here for this. Hard to comment.
