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Old 09-19-2005, 10:51 PM   #1
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Urgent Help with my Goldfish!!!!

I will appreciate if someone can help me with this issue. Everything seemed to be alright with my goldfish aquarium until one week ago. I just kept making the regular maintenance and water changes, and everything seemed to be running smoothly.

Suddenly some of my goldfish's tails and other fins started to get affected by something. Some of the fins and specially the tails seemed to be flaked, split like something was eating them. The tissue between the rays of the tails almost disappeared. One of them remained almost with no tail. The strange thing is that not all of them were attacked by this. The first days other than that, their behavior was quite normal and they haven't lost their appetite so far. I read a lot of books and consulted the veterinary. I was told first that I should check/treat for bacteria, which I did, but the problem persisted (I used Melafix and later Baktopur). Then I was told that this was caused by external protozoans and recommended me to use metrodinazol (flagyl) which I did, but did not work either. Then I was told that I should treat the aquarium for flukes, which I did, but did not work. I read that this may hade been caused by a PH crash, but I measured it and was normal as usual. I read as well about electrocution, I checked this, but it is neither the problem. Finally the veterinary told me to check for fungal infections, but it did not work either. I was also recommended to check for violence between them, and I observed the fish for several hours and even filmed them during the night with a special camera, but they do not show aggressive behavior to each other.

In the meanwhile the problem persits. The most affected fish is even loosing scales and the body mucus cover. he also has now a white spot on the head that did not use to have. but it does not look like itch or cotton.

I really would like to know:

- If other than what I have been already told, anyone knows what is the cause for this.
- If so, does anyone know an effective treatment that I could use to cure the affected fish (if still possible at all)?
- What can I do to avoid this from happening again?

As a general information, this is a 35 gallons freshwater aquarium provided with undergravel filter, aeration through a airwall stone, external power filter properly sized for the aquarium, internal power filter, and UV sterilizer. It also has algaes and plants. I use illumination during the day and turn it off during the night. The temperature ranges between 75 and 77 F depending on the daytime. It also has some artificial silicone plants I recently bought for decoration.

I have another similarly equipped/decorated aquarium also with goldfish and I have never had problems. The only difference I have ever noticed, is that in the affected aquarium, there is sort of a "dirt" that grows faster on the internal face of the glass, even though they are both exactly in the same area of the house.

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:09 PM   #2
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Sounds like fin rot (http://www.petfish.net/finrot.htm).

Look like this: http://www.thegoldfishbowl.co.uk/ima...c/DISE-075.jpg ?

First: The new additions to the tank (the plants) could they have carried somthing into the tank?
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:13 PM   #3
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I forgot to mention, I also cheked for ammonia, added salt and have been using gencyan violet and methilene blue...but does not work
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:15 PM   #4
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But why the other that also has a couple of the same artificial plants does not have any problem?
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:17 PM   #5
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Were the plants used elsewhere or brand new? Anything could have been on them if they were used elsewhere first.

Dose the fin look like the picture above.

And BTW it looks like you have done quite a bit of work and research alredy, cudos.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:18 PM   #6
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sorry to hear about the situation.
a few general observations that might help decipher the problem-
how many goldies do you have in the tank?
how frequently and how much water do you change?

i have never kept goldies myself. but i'd guess treating them without determining the cause of the disease would be detrimental in the long run. the best bet would be post some pictures.
i'm sorry i couldn't be of more help, but i'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:23 PM   #7
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Mabey we can get a mod to move this to the Unhealthy Fish area so it gets more targeted attention.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:27 PM   #8
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I will move the thread for you.

I also have found that fin rot is almost always due to water quality, and excess DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water contribute greatly. I would recommend an increased PWC regimen, thrice weekly 20%, with attention to vac'ing up debris in the substrate, plus using carbon in the filter and removing all of these medications that have gone in the tank.

PWC's and Melafix should solve the problem, though it might take a week or two.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TankGirl
I will move the thread for you.

I also have found that fin rot is almost always due to water quality, and excess DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water contribute greatly. I would recommend an increased PWC regimen, thrice weekly 20%, with attention to vac'ing up debris in the substrate, plus using carbon in the filter and removing all of these medications that have gone in the tank.

PWC's and Melafix should solve the problem, though it might take a week or two.
If its Finrot. I you can post pics econto4 we can help a bit more.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:29 PM   #10
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In response to you all:
- Thenk you for the fin rot info. But we are back again to bacterial...nevertheless the document suggests that the product I used is not good for this desease
- The plants were brand new and I washed them with water before using them.
- The fins look even worse than the picture...
- I keep 11 goldfish in the tank.
- I used to do 30% water changes every 3 weeks.
- How can I move the topic to the suggested section?

Kindest regards,
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:31 PM   #11
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Ok I will try to post pictures by tomorrow
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:35 PM   #12
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Topic alredy moved for you.

You should try to do 10-20% PWC weekly IMHO.

Mabey it could be Dropsy? I havn't had any experience with it but I read that it can make skales stick out but it tends to make the fish bloated (from my understanding). Also to my knowledge it dosn't erode tail.

I'll see if i can get a good picture.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:51 PM   #13
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i think the root of the problem lies in 11 goldies in a 37g and 30% pwc's every three weeks. simply put, goldfish eat a lot more than other tropical fish, and consequently, produce more waste. this waste gradually produces excess nitrates and dissolved organic carbon, both of which need to be taken out of the system by regular weekly pwc's. the more fish you have, the more frequent pwc's are necessary.

i also think TG is right. its plain old fin rot at play and cleaner water and melafix should do the trick.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:10 AM   #14
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Hi,

I think I read somewhere that Primafix is very good for fin rot, better then Melafix. I think Primafix has some antifungal ingredient that Melafix doesn't have. (from some other post : "Melafix and Pimafix are great for healing torn fins or wounds, and Pimafix supposedly treats fungus as well.").

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Old 09-20-2005, 10:17 AM   #15
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Primafix and melafix could be used together. Melafix is more of a topical astringent...it'll hlep keep open wounds from getting infected. Primafix is more of a medication to treat infected wounds.

I keep both on hand, just in case, but rarely use either (knock on wood)
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:17 PM   #16
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I too use them both together - and in this case I think it is warranted.

I also agree with Tetrin that there is probably some buildup of debris (there is more to water changes than just keeping nitrate low) that is causing this in a very heavily stocked tank, and a modification of tank maintenance is definitely in order.

And yes, all of this is based on the assumption that we are dealing with finrot, though of course it could be something else.
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:16 AM   #17
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Sorry to say it, but you need a bigger tank or fewer goldfish. The highest number of goldfish you could possibly accomodate in a 37 gallon tank would be three and they would have to be one of the smaller fancy varieties. I do weekly 33% water changes and gravel vacuum at that time. Do you clean the gravel? I know it seems like an obvious question but, having been there and done that (started out with several goldfish in a 10 gallon tank, set up and added to it the same night because some kid at Walmart said there wouldn't be a problem) and didn't know about gravel vacuuming and over-stocking until my goldfish started dying.

Good luck to you.

Edited to add:
#1 - Under gravel filters can create pockets for anaerobic bacterial growth if you don't pull the gunk out of there with a powerhead ... also learned the hard way. I got rid of mine, wasn't worth the trouble IMO.
#2 - You say that you have filtration appropriately sized for the tank... again, I'm no expert, but I find that no filter does what it says it does. I always buy double the filtration for the tank size (ie. I have filtration for 75 gallons on my 44, filtration for 55 gallons on my 20, and filtration for 20 gallons on my 10's) and have found that they do keep up as long as my water changes and gravel vacuuming are done faithfully each week. Also, goldfish have a much larger bioload than the average fish and if you have 11 of them in there, I would imagine that's a lot of waste laying around even if you were gravel vacuuming every three weeks -- the time in between would certainly result in the "poisoning" of the fish, weakening their immune systems and leaving them open to all kinds of trouble.
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