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Old 05-23-2013, 10:02 PM   #1
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Plumbing question to refugium

I am putting a 125g salt in my wall. Now the height of the tank from the floor is going to only be at the most 11 1/2". I made a custom refugium. That is 48"x 12"x 12" my plumbing is going to be flex hose and this is how far the overflow plumbing sticks down.


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This is My fresh 55g fresh. The salt is going in underneath this tank. I am leaving myself only 1' to do maintenance. I know gravity and the pressure of the water should let me do somewhat of an incline. But how should I plumb this?? I have looked around for stuff like this but found nothing. Lmk
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:30 PM   #2
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Anyone????
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:48 AM   #3
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Anyone????
Any advice would be wonderful.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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Nobody.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #5
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Not really too sure what you're trying to do here. Maybe clarify a bit and someone could chime in...
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:56 PM   #6
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I have a 125g salt that I am putting in my basement wall. The bottom of the tank is going to be 11 1/2 inches from the concrete. The plumbing that goes down the middle of the tank and comes out the bottom sticks down about 7 inches. To the plumbing would go from an incline basically 4 inches to about a little bit over a foot. The incline would stretch about 4 1/2 feet to my sump. Will the water pressure/ gravity pushing the water down the overflow be enough to go the span of o little over 4 feet on an incline from 4" to a little over 12 inches? Hope that can sum it up a little better..
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:07 PM   #7
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That's the best drawing Incan do. Lol.


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Old 05-24-2013, 05:17 PM   #8
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It'll work. The plumbing will be a bit like having multiple sumps. You'll still have water pressure working to drain the main tank. It may be awkward to plumb and work on but it should be ok as long as the main tank has a normal surface style overflow. Shouldn't be to different from a normal setup. I can't say if the drain flow rate will be less than a higher tank. You may want to go with a return pump that's rated at less GPH than you would with a higher tank. You may not have the same head pressure because the tank is so low. Remember, the drain rate will depend on the size of your drain lines and any bends that may constrict the flow. A modest return pump might be a good idea.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:23 PM   #9
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Five inches of back grade will slow your overflow drain down some. How far of a distance away are the two tanks? You may find your pump pushing water faster than the overflow is draining if its a long run.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:40 PM   #10
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That's a pic of the overflow.

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I am going to get at lease a 1300gph return.there will e a ball valve in there if I have to turn it off or restrict the flow. But also I think the return pump it a variable one. Incan set the flow rate. Sound good?
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnypro
That's a pic of the overflow.

I am going to get at lease a 1300gph return.there will e a ball valve in there if I have to turn it off or restrict the flow. But also I think the return pump it a variable one. Incan set the flow rate. Sound good?
That may be way stronger than the drain will be able to handle. The main problem is the drain flow won't be free flowing. By that I mean that the water in the hose will have to go uphill a bit to get over the tank rim. Not to mention that a single 1 1/4" bulkhead and drain line would struggle at that flow rate even if the drain was straight down. Having a pump that large and backed-off would only strain the pump and add more heat to the system. Again, you're not going to have much head pressure so you won't need as large of a pump anyway. It may be alright if you plan to split the return line to run a reactor or two. Other people may have a better opinion. This is just my 2Ę.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #12
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That may be way stronger than the drain will be able to handle. The main problem is the drain flow won't be free flowing. By that I mean that the water in the hose will have to go uphill a bit to get over the tank rim. Not to mention that a single 1 1/4" bulkhead and drain line would struggle at that flow rate even if the drain was straight down. Having a pump that large and backed-off would only strain the pump and add more heat to the system. Again, you're not going to have much head pressure so you won't need as large of a pump anyway. It may be alright if you plan to split the return line to run a reactor or two. Other people may have a better opinion. This is just my 2Ę.
+1. Either a smaller pump, or no reverse grade, or using that pump for water to other devices.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #13
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That may be way stronger than the drain will be able to handle. The main problem is the drain flow won't be free flowing. By that I mean that the water in the hose will have to go uphill a bit to get over the tank rim. Not to mention that a single 1 1/4" bulkhead and drain line would struggle at that flow rate even if the drain was straight down. Having a pump that large and backed-off would only strain the pump and add more heat to the system. Again, you're not going to have much head pressure so you won't need as large of a pump anyway. It may be alright if you plan to split the return line to run a reactor or two. Other people may have a better opinion. This is just my 2Ę.
What do your mean slips the return line. For a reactor. I am all new at this. And how may gph would I need as the length is going to only be about 5" max ?? Ty.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:49 PM   #14
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It means if you tee off the return pump line and use it to supply another filter or a reactor like a phosphate reactor, calcium reactor, bio pellet reactor, etc.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:48 PM   #15
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How many gph pump do you think I need?
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:01 PM   #16
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How many gph pump do you think I need?
That depends on the size of the drain line. I'm also assuming you're only going to have one drain (perfectly fine). What size will the drain tubbing be at it's smallest point? It'll be hard to say exactly how much flow it would handle with the upward slope but it's the best place to start. Larger bulkheads and pipes can carry more water than even slightly smaller ones. That (and return head pressure) always determines the max flow rate you can safely use.

Think of it like a bathtub. It will only drain so much water per minute, but if you make the drain hole larger it will drain the water faster or vise-versa.
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:27 PM   #17
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That depends on the size of the drain line. I'm also assuming you're only going to have one drain (perfectly fine). What size will the drain tubbing be at it's smallest point? It'll be hard to say exactly how much flow it would handle with the upward slope but it's the best place to start. Larger bulkheads and pipes can carry more water than even slightly smaller ones. That (and return head pressure) always determines the max flow rate you can safely use.

Think of it like a bathtub. It will only drain so much water per minute, but if you make the drain hole larger it will drain the water faster or vise-versa.
I have 2. 1 1/2" drains going to 2 different 1" flex hose.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:13 AM   #18
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Putting a ball valve at the pump exhaust will not heat the pump up nor will it wear it out. On the contrary, it will lengthen the pump's life. I've never plumbed anything like this so I can't comment on flow rate, except to say, siphon overflows move a lot of water and they also come up and over the rim of the tank before they hit the sump. I think this is the same situation.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:51 AM   #19
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1800 GPH is about the max flow 2 1" pipes usually carry. It may be tricky with this setup. Going with something smaller may be a good idea in this one instance. Another option could be to drill the top side of the sump so the drain line can enter it unrestricted. That's how I would approach it if possible.

Most large internal pumps simply produce more heat than smaller pumps, whether or not the flow is constricted. It isn't as big of a deal in some areas but where I live heat is a big issue. In Louisiana we're always concerned about heat. An external pump is a good way to deal with that headache.

The overflow style analogy only really works when the tube is filled with water and not air water mix, like in the drain line. Air in the overflow line could possibly stop the flow. That's the concern. The OP may just have to test it out if the sump can't be drilled for the drain.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CorallineAlgae View Post
1800 GPH is about the max flow 2 1" pipes usually carry. It may be tricky with this setup. Going with something smaller may be a good idea in this one instance. Another option could be to drill the top side of the sump so the drain line can enter it unrestricted. That's how I would approach it if possible.

Most large internal pumps simply produce more heat than smaller pumps, whether or not the flow is constricted. It isn't as big of a deal in some areas but where I live heat is a big issue. In Louisiana we're always concerned about heat. An external pump is a good way to deal with that headache.

The overflow style analogy only really works when the tube is filled with water and not air water mix, like in the drain line. Air in the overflow line could possibly stop the flow. That's the concern. The OP may just have to test it out if the sump can't be drilled for the drain.
I made my own custom sump out of acrylic. So I can drill if needed. The only thing that I want to happen is for the 2 drain pipes to go into the 2 filter socks that I have. Going through the side of the sump I wouldn't be able to achieve that. Mind you my sump is 48x 12 x 12. So I have 8" sock that I would like the water to flow into.
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