Adding nutrients to tank causing the opposite

[Zigcy]

Good day guys

I have a bit of a head scratch regarding my tank.

Past few months I've been struggling to get my plants to grow in my tank.
To either adjust don't grow and die or grow for a bit (new thing now) and start to rot of close to the roots. The leaves and stem isn't even dead.

I have added Flourish Excel (Promotes Ferrous State of Iron) weekly to my tank for over a month now and it seems to me there is no difference, more as if the plants are on a pause moment.
Last weekend a guy at a well established Pet shop suggested I should add Flourish (Micro Elements, Trace Elements and other Nutrients) to my tank as well.

Sins I've been adding these 2 products my tank has gone south.
The evening my fish breathing has trippled and loseing colour, 1 electric blue ram and 1 neon has died another 2 looks bad and my plants -2 of them has died even more.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[JoshWithGuppies]

What plant are they? Not all plants should have all the roots planted. Also, make sure that they aren't planted too deep. If the crown is below the substrate, this could harm the plants. Regarding the dead fish, this could be the water parameters. Make sure they fit the plants and fishes needs.

 

[skrapeNKA]

Make sure you're following the dosing instructions very carefully for any chemical additives you put in your tank, it could potentially harm your fish if things are building up.

Plants not growing could very well be something as simple as your light. There are lots of lights that are -not- designed to grow plants. A google search will give you more information on this than I can!

Stem rot is something I've had some experience with growing stem plants in my system. The solution that's brought me the most success is to weigh down or float the plants until they grow a healthy mop of roots, generally takes a week or two with the stuff I've grown (you don't need a fancy weight per se, I used white cotton thread and a stainless steel sinker that wouldn't rust or leach anything into the water column). I just planted five stems of Scarlet Temple from a TopFin tube last week using that method; I even had to trim the bottom section off a couple because it was rotten in the tube! This has also worked great for me with Pennywort and Wisteria. The Pennywort just refused to stop rotting from the bottom until I let the roots develop before planting it.

 

[Khuligirl93]

I suspect your lighting isn't strong enough. What lighting do you have? And can you post a picture of your tank and the plants?

And are you doing weekly water changes? That's still an important thing to do even if you have plants. Especially with highly sensitive fish like an electric blue ram.

 

[Zigcy]

Sorry for the late reply

I have a Boyu Red -T8/ 20 W bulb (pink).
Also think the bulb is a bit short and Watts to low. Might be the problem.

I stopping adding anything in for the plants. Fishes doesnt breath as heavy as before. At this point both Angels, 3 Electric Blue Rams, 1 Kribens and 3 neons has died. When I do look at them nothing looks wrong on them externally. The used to only hang around the surface breathing not eating and then die.
Moss on the wood - hardly still have left.
Attached are photos of what happens to all my plants in my tank.

The fish in my tank seems happy so my big struggle now is my plants. Im bit to scared to add any nutrients in .

 

[skrapeNKA]

My unprofessional opinion is 'definitely more light'

 

[Bert2oo1]

My unprofessional opinion is 'definitely more light'

+1 20w of t8 isn't enough for a tank this size. I'd look at getting t5ho's or a nice LED fixture like a finnex planted plus 24/7. If money is abit of an issue u can find nice cheaper fixtures like the one caliban07 uses. Check out his tank thread for the light details.

 

[Zigcy]

Thanks guys.

Ill definitely go and get a better bulb.

Another question will be is, do I get a normal white bulb or pink again.

I have read up and was told with mix story that pink is better for plants but white is better for fish. Some say pink makes no difference.

I just want a good balance in my tank

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thanks guys.

Ill definitely go and get a better bulb.

Another question will be is, do I get a normal white bulb or pink again.

I have read up and was told with mix story that pink is better for plants but white is better for fish. Some say pink makes no difference.

I just want a good balance in my tank

Whites fine, it's really personal preference

 

[Caliban07]

Whites fine, it's really personal preference

This is correct. Daylight bulbs seem to give the best aesthetically pleasing look.

Also lets not forget any other possible reasons why the fish have died. We need to know a few other things about your tank like how long it's been setup, did you cycle it? If so how? What size tank and stocking etc. Do you perform weekly water changes?

Excel needs to be added daily at sometimes more than the instructions state. Many people will attest to this. You simply may not be adding enough excel. Stunting, melting, rotting and not growing are all signs of carbon deficiency. If the light is not strong enough to promote positive growth then this can be a problem too but this is rare in my opinion. Nutrient deficiencies are normally displayed by yellowing veins or leaf edges, chlorosis and undulating leaves.

My plan would be:

Excel daily at maybe twice recommended levels

Change tune to daylight it will look better.

Just add macro nutrients nitrate, phosphates and potassium maybe magnesium.

Trace I would leave for the fish and fish food to provide unless you start to see deficiencies.

 

[flchamp89]

Isnt that vals in the one picture? Excel has been known to damage it.

 

[Zigcy]

Isnt that vals in the one picture? Excel has been known to damage it.

Yes I do have them in my tank.
Centre back

The image where I hold the plant - what happens there happened with all my plants while addin Excel. Newe leaves would grow and fall out just like in the image.

 

[flchamp89]

Caliban07 advice was dead on. I was pointing out that vals are common on the no excel list.

I think you have multiple issues going on here. A common mistake is making so many changes at once and not knowing what helped and what didnt. When I make any light or nutrient changes I make minor ones and give it up to two weeks before any other adjustments unless the results are quickly worse.

It can often take months to get a tank dialed in and in balance. We all lack patience to some degree.

Remember light is deciding factor. Drives the nutrient/co2 needs.

 

[Caliban07]

It can often take months to get a tank dialled in and in balance.

I think this is one of the major obstacles when it comes to planted tanks. Changes can and often do take time. Especially co2 related changes.

Excel is not the cause of the problems here I can assure you but part of the remedy but as stated it will likely destroy the vals.

 

[pmvaldon]

i stopped adding any fertilizers or liquid carbon. planted Tanks with fish dont need em, and may even cause vigor to decrease.

 

[Caliban07]

i stopped adding any fertilizers or liquid carbon. planted Tanks with fish dont need em, and may even cause vigor to decrease.

We must be careful not to generalise our experiences when it comes to planted tanks because there is more than one way to run one successfully albeit the fundamentals with regards to balance will always be the same.

I had fish in this tank, good light, soil substrate, liquid carbon, injected co2 and dry fertilisers. No obvious decrease In vigour.

 

[flchamp89]

Too many factors for any advice regarding a planted tank to be a one size fits all.

But we know for fact nutrient and co2 injection is always beneficial regardless of plant species.

 

[pmvaldon]

what you find is many compartmentalize aquatic fishkeeping, without bringing in System Biology or mini ecosystem understanding.

The public at large would have way few problems with aquariums if they werent being bombarded with quick fix chemicals, gas infused waters, sythetic derived fertilizers, and rampant overstocking of livestock practices.

Doctor Diana Walstadt, among many other experienced scientists got this right.

 

[Caliban07]

what you find is many compartmentalize aquatic fishkeeping, without bringing in System Biology or mini ecosystem understanding.

The public at large would have way few problems with aquariums if they werent being bombarded with quick fix chemicals, gas infused waters, sythetic derived fertilizers, and rampant overstocking of livestock practices.

Doctor Diana Walstadt, among many other experienced scientists got this right.

I agree with some of your middle paragraph but I think you need to be a little more open minded when it comes to fish keeping/plant keeping.

There are many people who understand the implications and science behind their practices and it would be disrespectful to group everyone in the same category.

There really is more than one way to keep fish successfully. People have many different methods.

I happen to have Diana's book and agree with a lot of her philosophy which has been backed up with lots of interesting data but there are some plants (baring in mind her book is called ecology of the PLANTED aquarium and is not solely geared towards keeping fish) that will not survive following her methods. So if your goal is to keep a fast growing carpet plant with an array of vibrant colouration the Walstad method simply will not work.